"Jazz" wrote in
ups.com:

loved the DOS joke... lol!
I bought two elements today, called rheem customer support and they
told me what to get, i also bought the tool used to screw them in
(since they are screw in). Figured id replace bouth.

I was thinking "the heater is 12 years old, ill just buy a new one"
but the installed price was like over $700, so I fugured I would try
this one first...

Yeah, my dad told me about the "quick draw" mehtod, but all the same i
think I will drain it, in case there are any sediments...

if you guys dont hear from me by this weekend, it went well... if it
was a disaster, ill prob be back.
thanks again!
Jazz Mann

PS... yes, tennessee valley authority. Honestly, he has worked there
my whole life and retired recently,... and still, to this day, I cant
tell anyone what my dad does or did... i always jut say "He works for
TVA" that either stumps them or they nod in understanding... either
way they stop asking.

mm wrote:
On 21 Aug 2006 19:53:45 -0700, "Jazz" wrote:

I am a computer guy, not a handy-man, so forgive the stupidity of my
question...

I have a Rheem 40 gallon water heater.
240 volts, 4500 wattage, model number 81V40D C ...

My dad, a water heater inspector for TVA,

Tennessee Valley Authority?

tells me the top element is
probably bad (We have some hot water, but runs out pretty fast
now... i trust his judgement since he has done it for over 25
years).

I don't know what the symptoms are when the top element is bad, but
when I had the same symptoms as you, it was the bottom element. I
figured that out by using a volt-ohmmeter. Sometimes called a
multi-meter. They have them at Radio-Shack for under 20 dollars. If
I recall what they sell, I wouldn't get the cheapest little one with
a needle movement, but the next one up, which happens to be digital.

(Nothing wrong with an "analog" meter, one with a needle, but the
cheap one they sell is just too small. Digital meters do have
advantages, though, such as usually auto-polarity. Even when
measuring a DC voltage, like testing a battery, you don't have to
have the red on positive and the black on negative. It will just
show a negative sign if you connect it backwards. Some digital
meters have auto-ranging, but one can live without that....)

So I go to home depot to grab a new element, and I am seeing screw
in, twist in, walk in, fly in, run in, etc... :^)

As someone said, if you take the cover panel off (to check which one
you need, and if you need the heater or the thermostat -- neither are
hard to replace) you'll see if you want screw in or bolt-in.

OTOH, if you went to a Rheem dealer, he would know. OT3H, who are
you going to believe, the dealer or your own eyes? I doubt the
dealer would make a mistake, but if you see 4 screws arranged in a
square around the element, it's bolt in. If there are no screws,
it's screw in. That is, the whole element screws in.

The easiest way to check the element to see if it is bad is to turn
off the breaker for the water heater, use the scale of the voltmeter
that is higher than 220 volts AC to measure the voltage between the
two screw terminals on the element (always measure voltage before
measuring resistance, to see if it is safe for the meter to measure
resistance).

When you see that there is no voltage, use the continuity setting,
the buzzer, to see if the heating element is continuous from one
screw to the next. Aha, but since the water is fairly cold by now,
both thermostats may be on, so if one heating element is bad, it is
still in parallel with the other heating element maybe, probably, so
you need to disconnect one wire from the heating element, and then
measure the continuity of the heating element. It will show as bad
now if it is bad. You can also use any of the ohm scales, especially
the lowest one, to measure ohms. If the heater is good, it will show
zero or close to it. If the heater is bad, it will not change from
when the probes are not touching anything. The reading will be
blank, or dashes, or something like that. You can verify the meter
is working by connecting its two probes right together and it should
say zero or very close to zero.

If it is not the heating element, again (remember that the power is
still off. At least you were supposed to have turned it off) then
put the two probes on the two screw connectors of the thermostat,
which is a square thing with a dial on it right next to the element.
Same thing as above. Since the water is cold now, at least cold
enough that the heater should be heating, the thermostat should be
closed.

can someone just tell me what to get and where to get it? Pretend I
am your stupid son and feel sorry for me and hook me up. My dad just
says "Buy a new hot water heater, they dont cost much" but I dont
have time for all that, guests arrive in about 10 days.... I know
all i will have to do is turn the breaker off, let the water cool,
drain the tank, and

Because I didn't know I could get heating elements at a hardware
store, I got up early and went to the AOSmith dealer in town (I had
an AOSmith heater iirc) and he sold me what I needed, and because I
talk a lot (as you can see here) I said something like this, and he
said there was no need to drain the tank, which is time-consuming and
wastes water and hot water. IIRC, he had me turn off the main water
supply to the house, hot and cold, then open the lowest HOT water
faucet in the house, the basement sink. Some water will come out,
but after a few minutes, no more will. Because if new water can't
get in the other end, water can't come out this end. Air pressure,
growing vacuum, etc.

Then go to the water heater, have the new element ready, the wires
disconnected from the old element, remove the element and as quickly
as possible put the new element in and start screwing it in or
bolting it on.

That's what I did and I didn't lose more than 2 or 3 tablespoons to a
quarter cup of water. Not positive because some went into the
insulation inside the water heater, but it was very little. Because
of turning off the water to the house and opening the hot water
faucet, there was no pressure so the water idn't come out with force
and there was no problem putting the new element in, which there
would have been I guess if the water pressure were on.

pull (or twist, or unscrew) the element out and slap a new one in
there...

However, I dont have an ohm meter.... i mean, does the average guy
have

You could use the USB port. Just go into DOS, or Command I guess it
is called, and type "voltmeter". That will measure the voltage at
the first USB port. Wait a second.... No, that was just a dream I
had once. You need a separate meter.

one of these lying around? Ive replaced light fixtures and ceiling
fans, but the more i read the more people seem to freak out about
the water heater still haveing power in it even after turning it off
at the breaker... what gives?

It's the air conditioning where this happens because there are two
breakers powering the AC, but you really shouldn't be doing anything
electrical more than changing a lightbulb wihtout a meter. Maybe you
turn off the breaker and a helpful family member turns it back on.
Maybe you develop geriatric dyslexia and turn off the wrong breaker.
You need someway to see the electricty, and the meter is the best
way.

Never measure ohms until after you have measured voltage. There
should be no voltage when you are measuring ohms.


anyway, thanks in advance!
Jazz Mann



Yeah, my dad told me about the "quick draw" mehtod, but all the same i
think I will drain it, in case there are any sediments...

Saw a guy change a pressure relief valve doing "quick draw" as you call
it. Neat. With risk of soaking stuff due to lack of personal experience,
I drain. And like said, suppose to periodically drain from valve anyway
to extend lower element life.