Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Other ways of getting the tax revenue - which believe me they can't afford
to lose. Road pricing is the obvious one and remove direct taxation on
petrol and diesel. At the moment there are so few electric cars it's just
good publicity for the government to allow them to be cheaper to run per
mile. But if they became popular - let alone the norm - things will soon
change.

The answer is to simply let fuel oil prices rise not only at the pump
but at the power stations too. Then what you get supplied to you can be
bought from cheap nuclear power stations or expensive coal burning ones,
as you wish,..;-)


I was wondering about the 70A charging mentioned earlier too. 63A would
be more convenient as there are plugs and sockets already available at
this rating. In theory the RECs should love this, if the car could be
charged on a timer overnight when other demands are low.

I doubt the existing grid structure could cope with charging every single
vehicle in the country overnight.


I did SOME calcs on this last time it came up.

I think the answer I got was 2-3 times boost for the whole
infrastructure for a completely electric transport system.

However the picture is complicated by several factors.

1/. It wouldn't be all electric - there would still be a lot of
biodiesel and alcohol fuels used for usage patterns that don't fit
'recharging'

2/. Th egrid is currently shaped for peak demand - which happens by
day..overnight charging of say 30% of the UK cars would probably hardly
do more than allow high efficiency power stations to run 24 hours
without having to be taken off line. Its actually a more efficient way
to do things.

My final conclusion - hastily done - was that the current grid would
simply absorb demand over the next few years if these cars became more
popular, and then undergo progressive expansion on a timely basis as
more cars came online.

Fortunately adding wires is not so hugely long timescale wise as adding
e.g. a nuclear power station. If the demand is there, the capital costs
can easily be met by debt financing. No need for government intervention
at all.


I've always suspected that an electric car could kick the nads off IC
engined types.

It depends entirely on how much power you give it - same as an IC engined
one. Or perhaps the land speed record for a wheel driven vehicle is
already held by an electric car? ;-)


I think not. But its actually pretty good..over 250mph IIRC.

Motor and control technology is already pretty polished - problem has
always been with storing enough electricity. Back in the 80's someone
developed a sodium battery that was supposed to be the answer. Then
there were batteries based on aluminium. This one does sound a bit more
hopeful as it is using mainstream technology - the residual problem 1
now being cost - but we've seen many cases where that's sorted itself
out (early mobile phones were not cheap for example).

It's as I said - there's always a new battery technology just round the
corner which will 'solve the problem'. But it ain't arrived yet for
general use. It will when you can store approx the same amount of energy
(adjusted for the higher efficiency of an electric motor) as the average
petrol tank in a reasonable volume, weight and cost.

You can, except the cost.

This technology is not around the corner.Its available NOW and has been
for the last few years..simply not in the larger sizes that cars
required, or in the low cost. Hence the Tesla has had to do what
previous lithium battery cars have done - assemble packs out of a lot of
'laptop' sized batteries.

This is acceptable I think at this stage of the game. Its really a proof
of concept and a rich mans toy at this point.

I said earlier this year that there were three points of entry that made
sense into this market

1/. Luxury specialist cars, where cost was not a factor and electric
gave superior NVH and general quality

2/. Mopeds scooters and small short range vehicles, where the cost would
not be great.

3/. High power expensive toys. like the Tesla. which rich men could buy
to make a fashion statement.

I would expect the entry into 'our' market to be via things like an
electric 'smart' car..

and possibly some urban busses.


The trouble is electric car makers and their advocates always quote the
best possible range and best possible performance without making it clear
the two can't happen at the same time. To fool the gullible like dribble,
who already thinks it's possible to exceed 100% efficiency. Now we all
know that driving an IC car hard results in heavier fuel consumption and
of course the same applies to an electric one.

But thats no different from any other car. My Jag I have just sold was
quoted as 0-60 in 5.2 secs and 22mpg.

It CERTAINLY would NOT do 22mpg at its rated top speed of 156mph.

Around London, it used to be about 12mpg. Over 70mph it dropped to
20mpg, and over 100mph it was around 17mpg.

I don't have figures for over 130mph ;-)




Problem 2 is infrastructure - for this to really take off, you need to
have top up points available, probably at roadside cafes or car parks.
Not insoluble.

If you had an electric vehicle with the same sort of range under real
world driving as an IC one, which can be charged at home, you'd probably
not need many 'filling stations'. They would have to charge for supplying
the facility, so would only be used on long journeys where they'd be
essential.


I see it somewhat differently

Look at car usage.

The average suburban estate dweller has a drive and a garage. No problem
there with equipping that with a charge point.

But the average town dweller in on street..here I suspect that he would
drive to work, or the shops, park the thing and charge it THERE. Those
would probably NOT be high capacity charge points..but they would need
to be supplied.

So most car parks would incorporate charging.

That takes care of all but the 'motorway' scenario where you might have
to stop for 40 minutes every 200 miles or so, and go for a rapid
charge..that WOULD need a substation of reasonable dimensions. However
its arguably no more expensive than a bloody great suite of tanks and
the like.

Cheers

Tim