On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:44:38 -0000, "Chris Oates" none wrote:


"Dean" wrote in message
...
This is sort of metalwork - it involves lead. I was watching the Iraqies
celebrating the capture of Saddam by firing their rifles and guns into the
air. How dangerous are the bullets coming down ? I know they fall back
much
slower than they leave the gun barrel, but they must still be doing a fair
clip. They said 4 people so far have been killed by this but I guess in
Iraq
its hard to know which bullets came from where. As a few of you know about
guns I thought I'd ask here.

Yes, same velocity they went up with
many cases on manslaughter have resulted
damage can be nasty as the bullet may have
aquired a spin or not be in line with the fall

Sigh..much LOWER velocity then they went up with. Around 300 fps +/-
impact velocitiy on average. The AK-47 fires its 7.62mm, 125gr bullet
around 2300feet per second. The AK-74, uses a 5.45mm bullet with a
weight of around 55grs and a muzzle velocity of around 2900 FPS. Of
course the heavier bullet will retain far more kinetic energy than
the small one.

Terminal velocity is dependant on shape of the leading profile. If a
bullet was fired STRAIGHT UP, it will generally fall and land on its
base. While the bullets upwards trajectory slows, then stalls, then
reverses, its STILL spinning as a result of the rifling in the barrel
of the weapon it was fired from. This was demonstrated many times by
various ballistics labs.

http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/March01.htm
Bullets in the Sky

We frequently get questions about firing bullets vertically into the
air. The most frequent question is, "Will bullets fired into the air
return to the earth at the same speed they left the gun?" Other
questions asked are; "How far does the bullet travel when fired
vertically and how long does it take to come down, or does the falling
bullet have enough energy to be lethal should it strike someone on the
ground?"

Some have tried vertical shooting, but very few have had any luck
hearing the bullet come back and strike the ground. When a bullet is
fired vertically it immediately begins to slow down because of the
effects of gravity and air drag on the bullet. The bullet deceleration
continues until at some point the bullet momentarily stops and then it
begins to fall back toward earth. A well-balanced bullet will fall
base first. Depending on bullet design, some bullets may tumble on
their way down and others may turn over and come down point first.

The bullet speed will increase until it reaches its terminal velocity.
The bullet reaches terminal velocity when the air drag equals the pull
of gravity or stating it another way, the bullet weight and drag are
balanced. Once this velocity is achieved the bullet will fall no
faster.

In 1920 the U.S. Army Ordnance conducted a series of experiments to
try and determine the velocity of falling bullets. The tests were
performed from a platform in the middle of a lake near Miami, Florida.
The platform was ten feet square and a thin sheet of armor plate was
placed over the men firing the gun. The gun was held in a fixture that
would allow the gun to be adjusted to bring the shots close to the
platform. It was surmised that the sound of the falling bullets could
be heard when they hit the water or the platform. They fired .30
caliber, 150 gr., Spitzer point bullets, at a velocity of 2,700 f.p.s.
Using the bullet ballistic coefficient and elapsed time from firing
until the bullet struck the water, they calculated that the bullet
traveled 9,000 feet in 18 seconds and fell to earth in 31 seconds for
a total time of 49 seconds.

As a comparison, the .30 caliber bullet fired in a vacuum at 2,700
f.p.s. would rise nearly 21.5 miles and require 84 seconds to make the
ascent and another 84 seconds to make its descent. It would return
with the same velocity that it left the gun. This gives you some idea
of what air resistance or drag does to a bullet in flight.

Wind can have a dramatic effect on where a vertically fired bullet
lands. A 5 mile per hour wind will displace the 150 gr. bullet about
365 ft based on the time it takes the bullet to make the round trip to
earth. In addition the wind at ground level may be blowing in an
entirely different direction than it is at 9,000 feet. It is no wonder
that it is so difficult to determine where a falling bullet will land.

Out of the more than 500 shots fired from the test platform only 4
falling bullets struck the platform and one fell in the boat near the
platform. One of the bullets striking the platform left a 1/16 inch
deep mark in the soft pine board. The bullet struck base first.

Based on the results of these tests it was concluded that the bullet
return velocity was about 300 f.p.s. For the 150 gr. bullet this
corresponds to an energy of 30 foot pounds. Earlier the Army had
determined that, on the average, it required 60 foot pounds of energy
to produce a disabling wound. Based on this information, a falling 150
gr. service bullet would not be lethal, although it could produce a
serious wound.

Many other experiments have been made to find the amount of air drag
on a .30 caliber bullet at various velocities and it was found that
the drag at 320 f.p.s. balances the weight of the .021 lb. (150 gr.)
bullet and terminal velocity is achieved. For larger calibers the
bullet terminal velocity is higher since the bullet weight is greater
in relation to the diameter. Major Julian Hatcher in his book
Hatcher’s Notebook estimates that a 12 inch shell weighing 1000 pounds
and fired straight up would return with a speed of 1,300 to 1,400 feet
per second and over 28 million foot pounds of striking energy."
********************

Its been my experience that most fatalities or injuries from "spent"
bullets were the result of a bullet that was fired at a low angle
(less than 45', and as such retains a good percentage of its forewards
velocity as gravity drags its trajectory downwards. Some of those
folks are not particularly careful when doing the AK Dance, as
witnessed on TV broadcasts over the last 20 yrs from the Middle East.

Gunner
" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age...
I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues
as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity,
bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity,
fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable
choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with
every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we
accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we
kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for
Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and
then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We
*assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his
fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation
to keep the State out of the church business, we've
destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*.
Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives