On 8 Dec 2003 08:03:26 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

again..the actions are demonized as violations of the Constitution and
Civil Rights..witness Patriot Act, Gitmo etc etc.

Now could you please explain exactly why your view of the
BOR is a single, unitary amemdment - the second, of
course. And you will move heaven and earth to see to
it that the second is upheld verbatim, and stamp and
holler if anyone who supports it is denigrated.


Cites? We have the ACLU watching over the rest of them (their ignoring
the 2nd is notable btw)

Yet the adminstration can **** all over the rest of the
BOR and you seem to jump for joy. Part of me wants to
see Ashcroft do something that would drive you nuts,
something crazy like calling in all private weapons
in the US, under the guise of the patriot act. *Then*
you might take off the blinders and see that those
guys are not your friends. If they **** on part of
the BOR, they **** on the WHOLE THING. Including
the second.

Jim


Jim, once again, you failed to answer the question or read/think
particularly deeply. The comment was made, that we should/could have
prevented 9/11 etc. The only way we could, particularly in the face of
the cutting of funding for HUMINT (human intelligence sources) would
be to tighten the screws and set up a police state. The Lefties and
the ignorant weep and wail about the failure, never realizing the
alternative IS a police state.

When they DO get part of their wish, the Patriot Act etc...suddenly
they start wailing about the result.

Sorry guys...this is an either/or situation.

There is NO way to prevent terrorism, or acts of terrorism, without
stepping on peoples toes, or their Rights. Period. Full stop, end
program.

I of all people, a libertarian, and activist, am fully aware of the
issues. I don't live in the warm comfortable Cave of Apathy.

Hence my request of alternative suggestions. So far..all I see are
knee jerk responses with no value to the situation at hand.

Again I ask..how would YOU handle the situation. What means would you
use to ferret out whom is a Tango, whom is funding them, where the
money comes from, whom belongs to a sleeper cell, whom funnels money
to unfriendly groups whose goals are death and destruction to both the
US and our allies? Remember..you cannot take any steps that will
restrict or harm anothers rights, no matter if they are a Citizen or
not.

Im waiting

Gunner


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No 220-pound thug can threaten the well-being or dignity of a 110-pound
woman who has two pounds of iron to even things out. Is that evil?
Is that wrong? People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence,
they're begging for the rule of brute force, when the biggest, strongest
animals among men were always automatically "right". Guns end that,
and social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make
it work.
- L. Neil Smith