unless there was a chinge in gun laws in the time period, I would say it
is largely irrelevant. May urban areas are experiencig an uptick in
crime, some think because criminals are getting out

Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:07:03 GMT, yourname wrote:



http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/...2-table04.html

newer fbi stats.
there are more states with lower murder rates than Mass now, the smaller
pops seem to fluctuate more.




This refutes Its the Culture, exactly how??

Btw..I notice that Mass has gone from 2.2 to 2.5. Seems like more gun
laws are really working, hey?

And North Dakota went from 1.1 to .8

Odd how that happens.....G


Maryland went way up. Now there is a hotbed of gun rights too.....
http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/maryland

Permit required to purchase any firearm
Permit required to own a handgun
Full registration
No practical ccw
No shall issue


"In MD it is almost impossible for a non-resident to get a permit. For
that matter most MD residents can't either.

To add to this. On the Maryland State Police page under Laws on
Handguns the following note is contained in Maryland Law about whom
and what may be carried on or about a person. Article 27 SEC. 36B This
section is constitutional as a reasonable exercise of the State's
police power. And it does not violate the Second Amendment because
that Amendment is not applicable to the States. Onderdonk v. Handgun
Permit Review Board, 44 Md. App. 132, 407 A.2d 763 (1979).

Body Armor Laws can be found in Maryland laws CRIMINAL LAW : TITLE 4.
SUBTITLE 1. § 4-106 & § 4-107.

Chemical Spray Laws can be found in Maryland Law TITLE 4. SUBTITLE 1.
§ 4-101.

Maryland Constitution, DECLARATION OF RIGHTS:

Art. 28. That a well regulated Militia is the proper and natural
defense of a free Government.
Art. 29. That Standing Armies are dangerous to liberty, and ought not
to be raised, or kept up, without the consent of the Legislature.

(There is no provision relating to the right to keep and bear arms.)

From the MD Attorney Generals FAQ Page: Does Maryland recognize
handgun carry permits issued by other states, and how can I transport
my handgun through Maryland?
Questions regarding the transportation of handguns or handgun permits
should be directed to Assistant Attorney General Mark Bowen at e-mail:
or 410-653-4228"

(btw the answer to this..is No. no fair traveler law).

Gunner




Gunner wrote:



On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:18:52 GMT, yourname wrote:





Of course you are 4 times more likely to be murdered in Arizona than in
Mass[8 murders per 100k vs 2,1999] That makes all those gun nuts happy
exactly why?





Hummm and your state is a hotbed of murders and terror compared to
North Dakota with its 1.1

I should add... North Dakota has

InstaCheck, No waiting period
Allows machine guns
Is a Shall Issue state
Is an Open Carry State
knives with blades 5" or less are legal to carry anytime
Has reciprocity with many other states
No registration
No FID

Perhaps we should compare this to Japans rate of 1.1
Japan has a total ban on any firearm of any sort btw
However...the murder rate in Japan, with weapons other than firearms,
is 3.2 per hundred thousand.


"In countries like Japan and England, where handguns are banned or
heavily regulated, the murder rate is a fraction of what it is in the
U.S.

Due to their different histories, legal systems and cultures, Japan,
England and the U.S. cannot be accurately compared. However, some
observations can be made.

The murder rate among some ethnic groups in the U.S. is on a par with
that of Britain, even though all ethnic groups in the U.S. have equal
access to firearms. This shows that gun bans, as in England, do not
significantly reduce the murder rate. It also shows that in the U.S.,
the murder rate is driven by cultural differences between ethnic
groups, and not by mere access to firearms. This means that, even if
firearms were banned in the U.S., there would not be a significant
reduction in the murder rate.

In Japan, the United Nations reports the murder rate is about 1.1 per
100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 people
each year by weapons other than firearms. This means that even if
firearms in the U.S. could be magically eliminated, we would still
have three times the murder rate of the Japanese.

The very low rate in Japan is clearly due to cultural and historical
reasons, not the ban on firearm ownership. The Japanese are largely a
homogenous ethnic group with a shared culture. They do not have to
deal with the same ethnic and racial friction which has caused much of
the problems in the U.S.

But there is also more to the story in Japan. Its murder rate may be
low, but its suicide rate is about 17 per 100,000 people. This means
the Japanese are being murdered and committing suicide at a rate of
about 18 per 100,000. In the U.S., our combined murder and suicide
rate is about 18 also (7.0 and 11.1, respectively, according to the
Department of Justice). This comparison is significant because it
shows that even if we could ban firearms, there probably would not be
an appreciable reduction in the combined murder and suicide rate.

Lastly, some countries which have very strict gun control laws
(stricter than England and Japan), have very high murder rates. For
example, it is a capital offense to own a firearm in Taiwan, yet they
have a higher murder rate than we do. In South Africa, guns are
strictly controlled, yet their murder rate is 10 times that of the
US."

Btw..the murder rate currently in the US is 5.5, so we have a lower
rate of combined homicides and suicides than Japan.

As has been stated before, its not the guns, its the culture.


Gunner

"No man shall be debarred the use of arms.
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm those only who are neither
inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants.
They ought to be designated as laws not preventative but fearful of crimes,
produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by
thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree."
- Thomas Jefferson





"No man shall be debarred the use of arms.
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm those only who are neither
inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants.
They ought to be designated as laws not preventative but fearful of crimes,
produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by
thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree."
- Thomas Jefferson