On Tue, 09 May 2006 20:26:37 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Tue, 09 May 2006 17:14:46 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Ive been asked to install and wire in a number of Moog mills..these
are old, hydraulic based machines. Most of the cabinets say 25 amps
and in the fine print G 460 volts..while a couple of them do say 55
amps at 208.

The client has 200 amp service..and I cant get him to
understand that there aint no ****ing way he is gonna run 4 Moogs, 2
OmniTurns, 3 Bridgeports, a Tree, and 3 manual mills on that 200 amp
service. No 460 service either..

Sounds like 200A at 277/480 might not even cut it. Do a bit of
math, but it sounds like 400A to me.

Do you do work down in Costa Mesa, or do you have a recommendation for
a commercial electrician in that area, who can come in and give them a
quote on upgrading their service to 400 amps? Put in another service,
use the existing 200 amp as a sub etc.

We don't go that far south as a regular occurrence (especially since
gas has gone through the roof) but if the Boss is desperate enough...
We're mostly maintenance, but we change a few services a year.

Maintenance is nicer, we don't have to deal with those pesky code
inspectors insisting we rebuild the entire building to meet the
current code just because we swapped out the Main Panel.

(One guy had us chasing down 40-year-old original construction
mistakes over four re-inspects till I got PO'ed and he relented.)

The client actually asked me if we simply cant use a transformer to
"increase the power"...not step it up to 440..but to Increase the
power....blink blink

ooookay.

A transformer to... Hey, this guy must be a Democrat - he keeps
trying the same procedure that has failed the last 99 times praying
for it to work just this once... ;-P

(He's... Standing right behind me, isn't he?...)

If you step up the voltage on the output, you step up the current on
the input, and that 200 Amps starts running out even faster. You need
to start with 15KV and go down, not 240V and go up.

If the existing panel is 200A 120/240 Open Delta or 120/208 Y leave
it exactly as you found it, let it keep feeding the lights and plugs,
the AC, the computers, etc. That way when something blows up back in
the shop, the lights stay on. And when he moves out, he can leave it
as he found it.

The first thing you do is call SoCal Edison, have a Service Planner
meet you and the owner at the shop, and let him survey the prints to
see what kind of 480V power is available at that address. And (more
important) what it will cost to get Edison to provide it. They will
charge for a new transformer (plural if it's aerial), and there will
be a monthly charge that is based depending on how big (KVA) it is.

If it's aerial feed and there is room for another set of pigs on the
pole, it can be a few grand for Edison, a few grand for a new 200A or
400A 277/480V service, and he's off and running making lots of chips.

If it's an underground utility service only area or they start
talking new pole lines, trenching, vaults... you can get into some
serious money fast. Depending on the lease he has and the rates in
the neighborhood, that's the time to check into a bigger building with
enough power in it already, and move.

Interior standing sections are a lot cheaper than weathertight.
Find an inside corner near the other power services to plop down a
200A or 400A "Instant Service Switchboard". Anchor it to the floor,
poke a service mast up through the roof, and go to town.

Call Bernard & Sons (16123 Cohasset Van Nuys 818/787-9303) and see
if they have a recent vintage used Cutler Siemens or SquareD service
section of the right size. (No antique Zinscos FPE's or Bulldogs, you
don't need to start out with someone else's headache.)

You can do the 'body and fender' work to weld up any un-needed holes
in the sides and paint it.

-- Bruce --

Many thanks Bruce. Pretty much as Id figured for the most part.

Ill check with B&S if the customer wants to spend some bucks

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams