"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
et...
"jim rozen" wrote in message
...

Ed seems to ridicule my suggestion that the jobs are headed for other
countries, something that baffles me no end,

How odd, because Ed's comments on this subject, which began
nearly a year ago, made it painfully clear that he was predicting
exactly *that* - a departure of manufacturing jobs to china.
He's been saying that all along, and I quote his "1/20th"
number almost every day. Frankly it seems like *every*
*single* person I meet has this exact issue on their mind,
and they are struggling to wrap their mind around the concept.

I didn't hear Harold say those jobs are headed for other countries. I
thought he said that we have to drop our wages to compete with them.

I may not have said that in any particular post, but I have said it, and it
is the basis of my suggestion that we all must learn to compete by lowering
our excessive (read that unearned, or more than value) wages, but that would
obviously only apply to those that wish to keep their jobs, even at lower
pay. If one chooses to sit with their thumb up their butt, unemployed,
still talking about the good old days when they made money hand over fist,
because they helped their employer send his/her job over seas because they
demanded a raise when they were already overpaid, then perhaps it wouldn't
apply.

A lot of the jobs have already left. There's a range of opinion on this,
but
the median opinion among economists right now seems to be that, of the 2.7
million US manufacturing jobs that have been lost over the past three
years,
between 500,000 and 800,000 of them have been lost to low-wage countries,
primarily to China. The rest have been lost to recession and the collapse
of
a capacity bubble.

But I don't see any way that wages are going to drop drastically.

Nor do I, especially if they have to drop to the same level as the
developing countries, but surely we could take a more realistic approach and
pay workers appropriately for their contribution. That could encourage
corporations to keep some of the work here.

I still maintain that we are paid wages beyond those that we earn.
Unrelated to manufacturing, I've offered examples, one of which is UPS
drivers that make near $30/hr., assuming it's true. If it is, how in hell
can anyone justify wages like that when they have little, if any, training,
and the job is far from a skilled profession or trade. The main point is
you or I could learn to do their job in a day. Do you think anyone out
there could have learned tool making over night? Could I take your job of
writing from you? Could the man off the street push me out of my job (as if
I have one!) because he could do it cheaper, yet he's never done it before?
Some things are unlikely, but not this one, because it is a resounding NO.
It takes years of experience and training to do work of that nature, at
least to do it properly and achieve success routinely. Once again, if
anyone can easily take any given job away from another, it isn't worth much.
I don't think a delivery van driver is worth as much as a tool maker, nor a
well trained machinist. They certainly aren't worth more, yet they are
paid far more. Does that make sense?

Harold