On Fri, 5 May 2006 00:23:00 -0700, "Hawke" wrote:
"Cliff" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 4 May 2006 00:28:41 -0700, "Hawke" wrote:
"Cliff" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 2 May 2006 23:22:15 -0700, "Hawke" wrote:
First off, accidental shootings have declined considerably over the
years
and as I recall there are somewhere around 5,000 accidental deaths by
guns
per year.
"In 1999, there were only 154 justifiable homicides by private
citizens
in the
United States."
IOW The gun was actually used in self defense to kill someone....
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/f...page=firefacts
5,000 (may be high)/154 = 32.5 odds against you. But police
shootings need to be counted too if they were "justifiable".
Sort of in line with one of Gunner's cites.
But I'll still only claim ~ 8 to 1 against you, based on the research
I did g.
When I said 5,000 accidental shootings I wasn't talking about justifiable
uses of a firearm. I meant accidental shootings like children finding
guns
and shooting someone or hunting accidents or accidentally shooting
oneself
cleaning a gun, that sort of thing. Accidents, not intentional uses. So,
I
think you have to adjust the odds in my favor G.
Hawke
In my calculations I used total gun deaths vs. justified ones.
The results are almost the same: very, very bad odds and
it put the lie to the statement "guns make you safer" (and any
similar gunlogic nutcase claims) quite clearly.
Consider the usual lack of deaths by gunfire were few have any
guns handy ... ane even criminals & police feel safer ...
Alcohol is involved in nearly 40% of highway fatalities, of which there
have
been ~ 5,645 (per http://www.alcoholalert.com/deathclock.html) thus
far this year.
Would you & others be safer if everyone drove while drunk? After all,
so many get home safely .... and being drunk may have saved a few lives
now & then ...
--
Cliff
The only problem with your assertion about being safer if there were no guns
is that it isn't true.
So you would indeed have the most gun deaths if nobody had any
guns and the least when all were waving them about?
If all guns were gone (a fantasy that can never
happen) violence in America wouldn't be appreciably less.
Per the numbers for similar nations the US gun deaths are extra ones.
You'd still have the same *other* deaths but not the ones with guns
involved.
As has been shown
in many studies, it's not the availability of a gun that is the causal
factor in violence.
So that explains all the dead kids with shiney toys.
Guns are not the root cause anymore than rocks are but if you
don't have them so handy ....
Causes are not at issue. Outcomes are.
Take away a winger's guns .. he may have to think & calm down
while running out to buy a bow & arrow. Probably not as "accident"
prone either.
At it's core, it's the will of the individual that is
responsible.
So giving them nito or nukes would be fine?
Taking one kind of weapon from a violent and twisted individual
won't make anyone safe.
Almost all of the dead probably thought that THEY would be safer
and made the exact same claims.
All depriving you of the right to a gun does is to
ensure that in the case of an assault you will have no way to defend
yourself.
Get a gun. If used, 8 to 1 nobody will much like the result.
You are LESS safe before the fact, not safer.
Somebody spent $1 on a lottery ticket & won a lot of money.
Does that make lottery tickets good investments?
Buy ALL of them & be a sure winner ... while losing 8 dollars in 9.
Same thing.
If you think you are safer from single or multiple assailants by
being unarmed, be my guest, although that idea is absurd on it's face.
You have the cart not only before the horse but have lost both.
And sound like a gun owner in denial G.
Me, I
would prefer to rely on having a weapon and knowing how to use it than
relying on the mercy of an attacker, or hoping a cop will be around to
protect me.
Your probability of being unexpectedly dead just went way up.
I wouldn't think for a second of preventing you from going
through life unarmed, it's a free country. But I would ask that you would
afford me the same courtesy by allowing me to choose to be armed.
8 to 1 odds .... you & yours & your neighbors & friends are NOT safer.
--
Cliff