"Cliff" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 May 2006 00:28:41 -0700, "Hawke" wrote:


"Cliff" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 2 May 2006 23:22:15 -0700, "Hawke" wrote:

First off, accidental shootings have declined considerably over the
years
and as I recall there are somewhere around 5,000 accidental deaths by
guns
per year.

"In 1999, there were only 154 justifiable homicides by private
citizens
in the
United States."
IOW The gun was actually used in self defense to kill someone....
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/f...page=firefacts

5,000 (may be high)/154 = 32.5 odds against you. But police
shootings need to be counted too if they were "justifiable".
Sort of in line with one of Gunner's cites.
But I'll still only claim ~ 8 to 1 against you, based on the research
I did g.


When I said 5,000 accidental shootings I wasn't talking about justifiable
uses of a firearm. I meant accidental shootings like children finding
guns
and shooting someone or hunting accidents or accidentally shooting
oneself
cleaning a gun, that sort of thing. Accidents, not intentional uses. So,
I
think you have to adjust the odds in my favor G.

Hawke

In my calculations I used total gun deaths vs. justified ones.
The results are almost the same: very, very bad odds and
it put the lie to the statement "guns make you safer" (and any
similar gunlogic nutcase claims) quite clearly.
Consider the usual lack of deaths by gunfire were few have any
guns handy ... ane even criminals & police feel safer ...

Alcohol is involved in nearly 40% of highway fatalities, of which there
have
been ~ 5,645 (per http://www.alcoholalert.com/deathclock.html) thus
far this year.
Would you & others be safer if everyone drove while drunk? After all,
so many get home safely .... and being drunk may have saved a few lives
now & then ...
--
Cliff


The only problem with your assertion about being safer if there were no guns
is that it isn't true. If all guns were gone (a fantasy that can never
happen) violence in America wouldn't be appreciably less. As has been shown
in many studies, it's not the availability of a gun that is the causal
factor in violence. At it's core, it's the will of the individual that is
responsible. Taking one kind of weapon from a violent and twisted individual
won't make anyone safe. All depriving you of the right to a gun does is to
ensure that in the case of an assault you will have no way to defend
yourself. If you think you are safer from single or multiple assailants by
being unarmed, be my guest, although that idea is absurd on it's face. Me, I
would prefer to rely on having a weapon and knowing how to use it than
relying on the mercy of an attacker, or hoping a cop will be around to
protect me. I wouldn't think for a second of preventing you from going
through life unarmed, it's a free country. But I would ask that you would
afford me the same courtesy by allowing me to choose to be armed.

Hawke