"Peter Grey" wrote in message
ink.net...
I agree. I could spend a year looking for the "right" mill and not be
able
to do anything in the meantime. If I buy an RF30 or mini mill or
whatever,
I'll have the opportunity to make some stuff, experiment, and then buy
something better if I determine it's what I need. In the meantime I will
have learned a lot about machining and about what I prefer and want.

I understand that drill/mills aren't perfect, but there seem to be too
many
people on the web that are using the RF30 and its ilk successfully (while
keeping in mind its limitations) to buy into the "mill/drills are useless"
argument.

Thanks,

Peter
"Bruce Simpson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 11:51:49 -0800, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:

My personal opinion is to stay away from miniature machines for
projects
the
likes of yours. I'd also avoid, like the plague, mill drills, unless
you
budget simply can't stand the cost of something better. It's RARE to
find
someone that is satisfied with a mill drill if they're using it as a
milling
machine, not a drill press.

(puts hand up -- me me ! :-)

I've had an RF30 for about four years now and it's served me well.

True, it's got limitations compared to a knee mill but I've done an
awful lot of work on it and it has done everything I have asked of it
(bearing in mind that I am aware of its limitations).

For me the choice was to buy an RF30 and have enough money left over
to get some decent tooling, (rotary table, vice, clamping set,
collets, flycutter, boring head, inserts, milling cutters, etc, etc)
-- or to buy a knee mill and just spend my days looking at it and
wishing I had all the accessories needed to use it.

One should always remember that unless you're planning to use your
mill for production work or your income depends on it -- *any* mill is
better than no mill :-)

You can always sell a mill-drill later and upgrade to a *real* mill if
you want/need/can-afford to -- and then all that tooling and other
bits you bought can still be used.

--
you can contact me via http://aardvark.co.nz/contact/

I agree in principle with each of you, but practical experience is a great
teacher. One of the hard lessons learned in life is buying something that
is ill suited to a job, then trying to liquidate it in order to replace it
with a tool that is better suited. The better investment would have been
the proper tool to do the job at the outset. Often times the money is gone
and the tool simply can't do the job at hand, and has poor resale value, if
it can be sold at all.

My point is that if a person buys a mini-mill, it is woefully underpowered
and, in general, not really equipped to make parts, regardless of the fact
that they can be placed on the machine table. For example, how about
drilling a ½" or larger hole in steel? Seems like that would be one of the
things Peter would encounter in his quest to build his projects.

When it comes to a mill drill, I recognize that they are better than
nothing, but they are, at best, a poor compromise for a reasonable milling
machine. The problems with mill drills have been well addressed, and
addressing them yet again in this thread serves little to no purpose.
Resale value isn't great, but then buying new is not all that expensive,
either. I accept that fact that for those that are limited economically,
and perhaps have no prospects of anything better in the future, they are
better than nothing.

Regards the argument about being satisfied with one, one of my friends, a
retired tool and die maker, owns one, and built his 1½" scale model steam
locomotive with it, along with countless other projects. He's a patient
person, willing to make the necessary sacrifices in order to achieve the end
result. I respect him for that, but my time is far too valuable to spend
it spinning my wheels endlessly, and achieving a less than acceptable end
result because the machine simply doesn't have the necessary quality built
into it. I guess it all depends on the nature of the work you intend to
do, and the quality level that you find acceptable.

I used my Bridgeport for gain, mostly building tooling for the aero-space
industry. I consider it the absolute minimum machine one could own and get
reasonable results. I do not look at the Bridgeport as a great machine,
but, like in your case, it was the minimum I found acceptable in order to
accomplish my mission. No way in hell could I have done my work with a
mill drill. Maybe now that I'm no longer working for gain I might see it
differently, but I still have the Bridgeport and wouldn't give the idea a
second thought as long as I do. I still do not recommend mill drills, and
for many reasons.

Harold