"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:10:38 GMT, "Ken Moon"
wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:33:15 -0500, "George" George@least wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote in message
m...
SNIP..........
Ahh, here's the nub of what I was getting to. I've been wondering if
that was the reason for the oil & wax school of thought. You know, a
1/2 pound cut of shellac over the piece before staining will even that
out, if you ever feel like trying it again. Staining is nerve
wracking to learn, for sure- just my idle curiousity at work when I
was wondering if the easiest method got accepted as the "right" way to
do it because of that.
SNIP.............
===================
This is something I've commented on before, but never got a definitive
answer; when you use shellac or any sanding sealer, BEFORE staining or
applying an oil, you eliminate wood penetration. It seems to me that a lot
of the "pop" that comes from an oil treatment is lost because you're
treating the sealer and not the wood. I've used stains and colored Danish
oils mixed into other finishes to stain and finish in one step (just did a
Danish oil and poly mix yesterday to quick finish a manzanita root
project).
Do you find a lack of color and contrast in projects where you seal first,
then stain versus the other way?

Since I opened Pandora's Box, I'll be sure to answer you as
definatively as I know how-

I've stained several hundred lineal feet of pine trim, as well as a
dozen or better pine and birch doors using the 1/2lb. cut of shellac
washcoat method. There is also the commercial "sanding sealer" and
mineral oil method, but all the above mentioned were time sensitive,
so the shellac was the way to go (think twenty minutes dry time as
opposed to twenty hours)

What I found in all cases was that the washcoat did in fact even out
the stain penetration, and prevented the blotchy look that often
occurs with pine and birch. It slows the absorbtion of the stain into
the open grain, and leaves a more uniform final result. The downside
of this is that it changes the method you have to use to apply the
stain. Normally, you apply for 5-15 minutes, and then wipe off, but
with the washcoat, you need to apply it sparingly with an almost dry
brush and allow to dry without wiping. In the case of laquer as a
final clear-coat, you need to apply a second washcoat of 1/2lb.
shellac to eliminate the possiblity of scaling when you spray it (at
least with Sherwin Williams oil-based stains- the laquer seems to eat
them.) Polyureathane, Shellac, or Deft seem to be okay without the
second washcoat.

The lack of colors is to be expected, as the washcoat is minimizing
the stain absorption in the porous areas of the wood, but I've found
that the contrast is minimally affected. The wash coat doesn't block
the stain, it just fills the large pores a little to even the color,
and you'll find that the dense areas (the grain lines) respond
virutually the same as on an untreated timber. I have used this
method on standard trim pieces and bland turnings, so I cannot comment
on something with (for example) a bird's eye figure that is best
emphasized with an oil or natural stain. But on bland wood, it does
bring out the sometimes less-than-visible grain patterns.

The grain can be obscured- but this has only happened to me in one
case, when I was matching an existing color, and had to have the paint
store increase the standard amount of pigment in a semi-transparent
stain by a factor of eight. In that case, the stain I had to match
had been painted on without wiping the first time, so obscuring the
grain was the name of the game anyhow.

What you lose in immediate "pop" is regained when you apply the
clearcoat, at least IMHO. Overall, the method works well for me, and
the customer has always seemed to be very happy with the end result.
As noted in my first post, this may not make for high art, but it can
add some visual punch to a piece that needs a little help bring it to
life.

Hope this helps- If I forgot anything, I'll be happy to fill in the
gaps.
====================

Thanks for the extended reply. This method is somewhat at odds with the
"traditional" way I've always used, so it is interesting to hear other
methods that also work. I had always thought of staining over sealer as
coloring the sealer instead of the wood. I'll keep this stashed away in
memory for the next "difficult" wood.

Ken