"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Harold & Susan Vordos says...

I'm not against horizontal machines, it's just that I couldn't have
produced
the work I did without a drop spindle machine. That is likely to be
true
of almost everyone. To be limited by a horizontal machine alone would
not
be a good thing, depending on the nature of the work at hand. Doing
the
nature of work we encounter is more difficult on horizontal machines.
Been
there, done that. The other rather major problem is that tooling
(cutters
and arbors) is far more expensive than end mills are. How much money
would a home shop type operation care to invest in tools that are seldom
used?

I use my horizontal mostly with end mills. They fit just fine
in the 5C spindle, I use the same collets as my lathe. One
set fits all.

That's an excellent point, one that may not be valid for those with a
Nichols mill, however. Still, I'd love to have either of them. I'm not
really against the machines.

My real point is, in my shop I've got two choices: either
a horizontal, or no milling machine at all (or a crappy
overpriced milling attachment for a lathe - it would cost me
what I paid for the entire milling machine to buy a milling
attachment for a 10L...) or the horizontal I do have.

Wow! If there's anything I might be against, it would be a milling
attachment for a lathe. Talk about a compromise! I fully agree with you,
Jim.

I think the real point here is what one becomes accustomed to doing. I
might use my O.K. Rubber Welders indexing square toolpost, for example. I
cut my teeth on indexing toolposts, thus I am not a fan of the KDK or Aloris
types, even though I've used them extensively. For me, the work habits
formed are much better suited to the indexing head, and I go far out of my
way to see to it that I use one. Only under protest would I use anything
else. And so it is with drop spindle mills. I recall when I started
working in the mill section at Sperry, there was a Nichols hand mill
available for small part machining. To a man, no one in the plant wanted
to run the damned thing. We had various Gorton mills, Mastermil (I-22),
9-J, a Unimil (sp), and a couple other small vertical Gortons, the model
numbers of which escape me now (and it's only been since 1965! I don't know
what's happening to me, honestly!). We also had other vertical machines,
including Cincinnati, Van Norman vertical/horizontal (head swiveled) and, of
course, several K&T's, a couple equipped with vertical heads that mounted
on the overarms and were driven by the horizontal spindle, plus one dandy
vertical K&T. At any rate, my time was spent, mostly, on the drop
spindle machines. We used them for precision drilling, not only for
milling. Before the missile went into full production, hard tooling (drill
jigs and more) were not built, so we did all drilling either on
multi-spindle drill presses by first laying out the parts, or they were
drilled on mills using the screws for location. Almost all the prototype
missiles were built that way. This was long before digital readout was
available, so I, naturally, still refuse to use a DRO. I've never used one
to this day. At any rate, it was there that my work habits were so well
formed, only to be strengthened by my last place of employment (a job shop
that subbed from the missile industry) and then my own shop. I can't
imagine having a mill that didn't have a drop spindle, not unless I had more
than one mill.

It may sound like rationalization, but honestly I've come
to love the hardinge for what it can do. And if I can find
nice newish one, I'm going to try to buy one for here at work,
as well. And the same reasons apply: the machine has a
tiny footprint compared with a b'port, and I have to put
a full sized shop in a vestpocket lab.

Yep, a perfect example of becoming very familiar with a given machine, and
wanting to have one at your disposal. To this day I'd give my interest in
hell for a Cincinnati #2 centerless grinder, a machine I ran and enjoyed
immensely. Same goes for a #1 B&S universal grinder. I realize there
may be better machines available, especially in the way of the B&S, but to
me they represent the ultimate, if for no other reason, I could make them
sing. In a way, they became my way of self expression at a craft that
seemed to be a natural for me. .

I wish you well in your quest to find another Hardinge, Jim.

The one thing I really miss in a milling machine like that
is a quill, for drilling. I figured that problem out
pretty fast though. I bought a drill press!

Jim

Lots harder to drill holes where you want them, though! Takes a lot more
skill.

Harold