On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 10:15:24 +0100, "The Rifleman"
wrote:
Now you have failed to point out that the 300 tons were found by US
military inventory takers. And you might notice..that they were in a
nice neat well known, and regularly inspected muntions dump. So having
suddenly found 300 tons of NBC muntions "lost" for what..10 or more
years..in a nice neat munitions dump, what leads you to believe that
Saddams NBC can be found in 6 months after having been hidden?
Thanks for playing.
Gunner
Ah but Gunner your Prez and his minions , The Brit and US intel agencies
assured us dozens of times thet they Knew Saddam had WMD and that they were
ready for use in 45Minutes, They said they hasd real time intel, so how can
they disappear so suddenly and not be found by the US UK or UN after six
months??,
Its not particularly hard to carry off or bury a large quantity of NBC
devices by truck in a couple months..which is the time frame we gave
them. How long does it take to load NBC devices onto an aircrafts
hardpoints, or into the barrel of a mortor? Those dispensers are
easily portable and may likely have been in that long line of vehicles
heading into Syria in the weeks leading up to the war.
but more importantly the finding of 300 tons of NBC munitions on
US soil totally destroys the US's credability as the good guys ( again), Its
a " Do as I say, not do as I do " scenario isnt it ?.
Not at all. The US has had a long history of having BC in its
inventory and made no bones about it. Unlike Iraq though we never
intentionally used it on our enemies, or our countrymen. The various
treaties called for the destruction of our stockpiles, which we did,
for years. We had LOTS of the stuff..thousands and thousands of tons
of the stuff. The 300 tons that were found were misplaced within the
system, no differently than if a couple tanks had gotten mislaid. We
found it ourselves, admitted the ****up publicly and it was added to
the material to be destroyed. Shug, Happens in every army. 300 tons of
binary artillery shells is not a particularly big pile as Im sure you
are well aware. Its quite common to "lose" quantities of ordnance,
trucks etc etc, even though its still under lock and key. Have you
ever seen a US continental munitions storage depot? They cover dozens
of square miles. The one at Tonapah Nev takes an hour to pass, at
freeway speeds. Its been said that there are munitions stored there
from the Spanish American war. The American west is studded with such
depots. Literally thousands of such sites.
Gunner
Bush , Blair and
cohave led us into an unjust and illegal war that for theUS is rapidly
beoming another Nam, and damage to US prestige is terrible ( again). Further
more if the big ole US can so easily misplace 300 tons on NBC stuff they
they most certainly do not have the right to tell other nations on how or
what to do with their weapons of mass destruction its shear hypocracy.
Sure we have the right. We have destroyed ours, even the stuff that
was misplaced. And we have no history of using it on our enemies or
friends, and quite frankly we have the might to make it so. Its a
much smaller world today..and we cannot afford to have an enemy use
the stuff on us or our allies. If we hadnt taken the moral high road,
we would never have destroyed the massive stockpiles we had built up
in response to the USSRs doing exactly the same thing. A couple of
countries as resourceful as the US and the USSR can make a unthinkable
amount of war spit in 60 yrs.
Mr. BYRD:
A letter written in 1995 by former CDC Director David Satcher to
former Senator Donald W. Riegle, Jr., points out that the U.S.
Government provided nearly two dozen viral and bacterial samples to
Iraqi scientists in 1985--samples that included the plague, botulism,
and anthrax, among other deadly diseases.
We indeed did ALLOW Iraqi scientists to receive those samples. They
were scientists alleged to be working on immunology for their versions
of infectious disease medical eradication programs. We have allowed
other nations to receive such samples. Many many of them in fact, and
most all of them were used by those nations in developing vaccines and
anti-toxins. Iraq used them in their version of the CDC as well.
Unfortunately its likely some was siphoned off for BC warfare
research. The US also let Germany and France sell them chemical
factories that could be used to make benificial insecticides or
commercial chemical compounds...or war spit. Im sure the UK has traded
samples with other nations as well, or are your scientists not working
on cancer research, vaccines against AIDs and ebola, just to name a
few?
Its a common fact that the UK has had a very long history of BC
warfare research, and in fact has had a few accidents along the
way...there being a few islands in your fair nation that are still
totally off limits due to massive contamination of anthrax etc etc.
So climb down off your high horse. No one was perfect, the right hands
didnt know what the left hands were doing etc etc, and thats pretty
darned typical of any nation. But like the UK, we have destroyed our
BC stockpiles and have determined that its a good thing if all other
nations did the same. Most have. Not all.
According to the letter from Dr. Satcher to former Senator Donald
Riegle, many of the materials were hand carried by an Iraqi scientist
to Iraq after he had spent 3 months training in the CDC laboratory.
Note the agents provided:
"1 vial Botulinum toxin (non-infections)."
"Most of the materials were non-
infectious diagnostic reagents for detecting evidence of
infections to mosquito-borne viruses. Only two of the
materials are on the Commodity Control List, i.e., Yersinin
Pestis (the agent of plague) and dengue virus. (the strain of
plague bacillus was non-virulent,"
One should note..that those strains are rather common in the Iraq
area, and Dengue fever is very common in the southern areas along with
most of the Nile River basins. Mosquito born infections are rather a
big problem in portions of Iraq.
Department of Health & Human Services, Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention,
Atlanta, GA, June 21, 1995.
Hon. Donald W. Riegle, Jr.,
U.S. Senate,
Washington, DC.
Dear Senator Riegle: In 1993, at your request, the Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) forwarded to your
office a listing of all biological materials, including
viruses, retroviruses, bacteria, and fungi, which CDC
provided to the government of Iraq from October 1, 1984,
through October 13, 1993. Recently, in the course of
reviewing our shipping records for a Freedom of Information
Act (FOIA) request from a private citizen, we identified an
additional shipment, on May 21, 1985, that was not included
on the list that was provided to your office. Following this
discovery, we conducted a thorough review of all of our
shipping records and are confident that we have now included
a listing of all shipments. A corrected list is enclosed
(Note: the new information is italicized).
These additional materials were hand-carried by Dr.
Mohammad Mahoud to Iraq after he had spent three months
training in a CDC laboratory. Most of the materials were non-
infectious diagnostic reagents for detecting evidence of
infections to mosquito-borne viruses. Only two of the
materials are on the Commodity Control List, i.e., Yersinin
Pestis (the agent of plague) and dengue virus. (the strain of
plague bacillus was non-virulent, and CDC is currently
petitioning the Department of Commerce to remove this
particular variant from the list of controlled materials).
We regret that our earlier list was incomplete and
appreciate your understanding.
Sincerely,
David Satcher,
Director.
Enclosure. (Copy unclear)
CDC Shipments to Iraq October 1, 1984 through Present
3/10/86
Dr. Rowil Shawil Georgis, M.B.CH.B.D.F.H., Officers City
Al-Muthanna, Quartret 710, Street 13, Close 69, House 28/I,
Baghdad, Iraq. 1 vial Botulinum Toxiod # A-2 (non-
infectious).
4/21/56--Dr. Rowil Shawil Georgis, N.B. Cir. D.D.F.H., Officers City
Al-Muthana, Quartret 710, Street 13, Close 69, House 23/r, Baghdad,
Iraq
1 vial Botulinum toxin (non-infections).
The complete list of toxins supplied to Iraq:
http://www.photius.com/rogue_nations...rd_020920.html
I suggest you read this list carefully.
Gunner
+
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it." - G. B. Shaw
Johnny Asia, Pope-About-Town
The First Church of Common Sense
Want to know what's REALLY going on in Iraq?
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/wakeup.html
Cowboys and Idiots: The Reagan Administration
Ronnies' "Brave freedom fighters" are now Bushs'
"evildoers" who "hate our freedoms".
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/reagan.html
The Rise and Fall of the Holy Roller Empire
The God-Awful Truth about Christian Zionism
http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/armageddon.html
The US is shooting itself in the fooot I fear old friend, Regards Steve
+
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle
behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto