DIYbanter - View Single Post

In article .com, wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
It's pretty clear that you haven't done *any* wiring -- you haven't any idea
what the colors are in a normal cable.

Bull****. Where in Florida have you done 100% of your wiring, Dougie?
I say Florida, but you can substitute any location where all the houses
have been built since 1970. You know how many times I've hauled wire
out to replace an outlet, only to find just a black, a red, and a
white? Or a two blacks and a white?

Just guessing here, but ... never?

Your problem is you define normal
as "what I've seen that's been rewired since 1970." Come to an older
city...pull some outlets out. Tell me what you find.

Been there, done that, found black, white, and bare. Never black, white, and
red but no bare. And you haven't either.

Didn't read my post too carefully, did you? I never said you couldn't have
black, red, and white -- just that you wouldn't have *only* black, red, and
white, without having a grounding conductor as well.

Read my reply above. You'll see it all the time.

No, you won't.

Hell, I just bought some 12/3 that had black, white, and green.

No, you didn't. You bought 12/2 with ground.

You're as ignorant as I thought.

There's an ignoramus here, all right, but it isn't me. What you bought was
12/2 with ground. Or 12/3 SJ cable, which isn't used for premises wiring.

White gets used for ground all the freakin' time...especially in the
situation TomH describes.

Doing so is a Code violation.

Yes it is. And it's done every second of every day of every year. And
there's so many local variations on the NEC, and those variations
change with such frequency, that I would not be at all surprised one
day to pull a purple wire out of a wall. And guess what? Inspectors
never see it.

Cite one case, just one, where a "local variation" of the NEC permits using
white as the grounding conductor.

Granted, in the electrical codes, white
SHOULD be neutral, and G/B SHOULD be ground.

Wrong. In the NEC, white MUST be neutral, and green/bare MUST be ground. They
are flatly prohibited from being used for anything else.

You are correct, but you missed my point. And you also missed the
point where I agreed with Tom H where he said to change the color of
both ends of the wire to indicate it was now being used as a ground.

Wrong again. I didn't miss anything. You're still missing the point badly,
though.

But if you got a
red/black/white, would you suggest hooking a different color to the
ground? Honestly...would you?

Yes, I would. I'd suggest attaching the green or bare wire that is *also*
present to the ground.

Even if your phantom ground wire isn't there?

But of course it is. And if you had the knowledge and experience you pretend
to, you would know that.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.