"Spokesman" wrote in message
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"Phil Scott" wrote in message
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"Pop" wrote in message
news:KOPEf.60$pY.19@trndny01...
"Roy L. Fuchs" wrote in
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: On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:55:09 GMT, "Pop"
: Gave us:
:
:
: "Roy L. Fuchs" wrote
in
message
: .. .
: : On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:54:33 GMT, "Long Ranger"
: : Gave us:
: :
: :
: : "Pop" wrote in
message
: : news:TOyEf.30398$OY4.5664@trndny02...
: :
: : "Long Ranger"
wrote
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: :
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: : :
: : : "Toller" wrote in message
: : : ...
: : :
: : : "Roy L. Fuchs"
wrote
in
: : message
: : :
...
: : : On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:55:00 -0600, Bud--
: :
: : : Gave us:
: : :
: : : The question I asked was for a single
tinned
stranded
: wire
: : in a pressure
: : : connection.
: : :
: : :
: : : Stranded wire in a pressure connection
cannot
be
: soldered.
: : :
: : : I am not doubting you, but can you give a
reference
for
: that?
: : : (I always crimp fitting on stranded, but was
unaware
of
: this
: : : prohibition...)
: : :
: : : It goes back to depending on the solder for
the
: connection. The
: : solder is
: : : holding the shape of the bundled strands. If
it
gets
hot,
: it
: : gets loose. You
: : : are depending on the solder to hold the
pressure
of the
: : connector.
: : :
: : :
: : :
: : :
: :
: : In other words, it's an interpretation of the
standardS
: rather
: : than a written rule?
: :
: : Pop
: :
: : Yes, that is why I said earlier that it was
debateable,
but
: that I tended
: : to agree with it.
: :
: :
: : Not true. Not "debatable". Not an accepted
practice.
:
: If you become more familiar with rules & regulations
gvt
wise,
: you'll learn that there are many, many cases which
can
only be
: decided by those who "interpret" the rules because a
specific
: case isn't specifically covered. Thus, the outcomes
depend on
: the inspector/s interpretation of those rules, which
in
turn
: makes them "debatable". It is, and always has been
an
: "acceptable" method in ALL areas of law inclucing the
rules
and
: regulations.
:
: Pop
:
: Tinning stranded wire bundles as a prep for insertion
into a
crimped
: connector or fitting is not now, nor has it ever been
acceptable.
: There are SPECIFIC rules against it is both the
military
and
NEC
: standards and practices.
:
: It is NOT about any form of "inspector's
interpretation".
:
: The electronics industry, above all, is not of that
nature
either.
: The guidelines have been set for years and the
differences
between
: military, industrial and commercial practice are not
all
that
varied,
: yet they are concise enough to make your statement
false.
Wow, I feel sorry for you; I'm through with you - you're
a
closed
mind.
If you *get inside* a soldered or tinned end and think of
the strands, how the electricity actually *moves* then
the
concept begins to open up. Electricity travels on the
surface of the circuitry. For wires the area of travel is
the surface area of the cable, Length*Pi*diameter. Adding
solder changes the surface areas and if you blob the
terminal rather than tin the strands you change the
surface
area of the wire and hence the physical characteristics
of
the cable.
Thats interesting... and at the least reasonably valid
possibly. Id like to hear more about that.
in the controls business of course the amperage very small
so
thats not an issue and we can solder the ends of the wire.
The idea you present on current flow being possibly less at
a
soldered in connection would make a good google search....
If
I find anything on that I will post it.
Here is what I have so far though. but that could and may
well be all related to electronics or control circuits...
.
In corrosive environments, stranded wire will corrode into
the
crimmped terminal and around the wire, insulating the wire
from the terminal slightly causing it to burn, then fail..
thats common.
Accordingly battery cable manufacturers most often solder
their wire into the crimped terminal ends.
This practice is seen pervasively in marine environments on
both low amperage control circuits, and on power circuits.
Use of solder on power circuit terminals however has many
problems, namely the solder melting out of the joint if the
wire warms too much...and extrusion of the solder under
compressive stress if screw connectors are used.. the
military
specs some are referring to cover that aspect... but not
the
other aspects.
Use of solder in an already crimped terminal serves to
increase the electrical contact area, thats good, and to
preclude corrosive gases, vapors and oils from the joint
(by
wicking up the bare wire).... that is seen commonly be the
cause of failure in those situations.
For the last 100 years... and currently.... most if not
all
controls systems and component manufacturers dip wire ends
in
solder that are to be fit under screw head connectors...
the
practice is at least 90% common.... thats with *control
circuits.
The practice is not common with power circuits for the
reasons
mentioned but is still seen in some situations (primarily
corrosive environments... anyone can purchase NEC approved
soldered connectors of course for those purposes... those
are
also pervasively common, especially in the electronics
industry.)
I totally agree with you, however Roy Boy does not.
Roy has some other issues going on.. some who do only
houses, with romex etc are unaware of the high end issues.
that seems to be his situation. With the kind of approach
Roy shows to life he wouldnt do well in the high end
markets... if he cleaned that up though and studies some, he
could probably double his wage by learning something about
controls and industrial applications.
Phil Scott
.
220,000 hits... lots of good articles on the first page.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
There is a time and a place to solder crimped or non
crimped
terminals and bare wire ends to be fit under a screw
head....
and a time when that is not a good idea (hot running
situations, although Ive seen pure silver or brassed
connections in those locations)
Phil Scott
Mechanical/ Electrical engineer and industrial controls
contractor since 1852 (I'm very old)