Damn you charlie b, I need to wait until May or June to purchase my x31 and
you just made the wait harder to take. he he he!

Craig



"charlie b" wrote in message
...
cm wrote:

I have done a little research and have emailed back and forth with a few
owners of these machines and have decided to pick up a used Robland x31.
I
have been watching them on ebay for the last 6 months and they are
selling
for $2500.00 - $4000.00. The X31's sell for just under $7,000 new. There
is
a Rojek available here in Arizona. It is the second from the bottom as
far
as size goes for them. It sold new for $12,000.00. the guy is asking for
$8,000.00 but it is too big for a garage workshop. I think the foot print
on
that rojek is 7'X7'. It is quite impressive!

Most of the manufacturers have mobility kits available and on some of
these
machines like the rojek you can use a pallet jack to move it around.

There is not much fiddling between machine changes on these machines.


When people hear the term "combination machine" they typically think
of a ShopSmith type of machine. As someone in this thread noted,
there
are other, far more capable and far easier to use, combination
machines-
Rojek, Robland, Mini-Max, Hammer and Felder, to name those of which
I am aware (grammarians: are you happy now?). These ARE NOT
ShopSmith type machines. These are half ton or better, cast iron and
spinning carbide and/or high speed steel, 3 to 5 Real Horsepowered
WOOD EATING, CHIP FLYING, NOISE MAKING, FINGER CUTTNG -
MAN TOOLS! OHOH-HO-HO!

(Sorry, slipped into Tim Allen Mode. Won't happen again. Sorry)

These combies, as we owners refer to them, typcially come with five
functions - table saw with sliding table, shaper, jointer, planer AND
horizontal boring/mortising with an XYZ table and three, count 'em,
three true 3 o 5 hp motors - one for the saw, one for the shaper and
one for the jointer/planer/mortiser. So the three functions needed
to get stock flat, with parallel flat faces, straight flat edges
square
to the face - a jointer/joiner, planer and rip saw, are taken care of
in one, easily moved/rotated machine. Having a 3 hp shaper that'll
handle an inch and a quarter bore and can use the sliding table is
gravy.
Add the ability to make 4" deep mortises and you've got a machine
that opens up a lot of possibilities. And having a machine that
weighs
in at a bit over half a ton means stability. On my 1100 pound
X31, I can set a dime up on edge paralleling the saw blade, an
another
on edge square to the blade - then rip a 1 3/4" thick piece of maple
without having either dime move, let alone fall over. Yet, when I
want to move the unit I get out the moving handle bar with the
wheel on its end, rasise the front so the two rear wheels will roll
and push, pull or turn the machine as needed.

Of course, since these are Euro in origin, some of the functions
the U.S. market permits are forbidden by the Euro equivalent of
OSHA - no blind cuts so no need to accomodate dado blades, nor a
need for fine blade height adjustments. And then there's the
"manuals" which, originally written in German or Italian or
Czech, translated into Aramaic, then Latin, through Sanskrit
and finally into "english" may be, shall we say - less than helpful
to a new owner. Fortunately there are owners groups on the
internet for each of these machines with helpful, knowledgeable
members. That's essential because you're not likely to have
friend or neighbor with a unt like yours, whereas finding a local
to help with a Unisaw or PM66 is not a problem.

I own, and actually use, a Robland X-31. Laguna Tools is the
sole source for them in the USA. It's also towards the bottom
end of LT's products line - selling new for "only" about $7K,
while their production shop stuff start in the $25-30K range
and head up steeply from there. As a result, their customer
support is - let's just say "less than stellar". I made a day
trip from Paris to Brugge for a by appointment only visit
to the Robland factory to see how they set up the X-31. When
I returned home, with my copius notes and plenty of digital
images, I put together my own set up manual, then put it
on my WWing site to perhaps help other X31 owners.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...ructions0.html

And set up with a combi is a bit trickier than with separate
dedicated machines - lots of interdependent things to deal
with. But, like any tool set up, if you understand not only
what to do and how, but also why - well it isn't all that
traumatic. BUT - if you're one to jump in anywhere and
start "adjusting" things you will learn to cuss - in Dutch/
Flemish/ German/ French and maybe Farsi.

When you use a combi you're way of working changes a bit,
more planning stock prep operations - joint everything,
then plane everything, then rip everything and finally
rip and cross cut (you can do cross cutting AND mitering
with the sliding table and cross cut fence - with flip stop.

And there are parts that aren't normally left on the machine
- the shaper shroud and fences, the XYZ table and the cross
cut fence, along with their mounting hardware, handles etc.
The XYZ table probably weighs 60 or 70 pounds and won't
stand up by itself when not on the machine. So you'll probably
want to make one of these to hold stuff and make it easier to
get the XYZ table on and off the combi.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/X31Cart.html

As hobbiests/amateurs, we're constantly having to reconcile
"ideal" with "real" - finite shop space vs the footprints
(and "wood alleys) of the 'essential tools'.

Look at this shop 16x22 shop layout and figure out how you
could work in a cabinet saw with a 52" cross cut capability,
a shaper, with sliding table, a 12" planer AND a 12"
Jointer. The see if you can fit a horizontal boring/mortising
machine - with XYZ table into the space.

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/...htSideMap.html

Used X31 can be had for $2-3K. Try finding the equivalent
five functions - used - for that kind of money.

Here's the url for the Robland X-31 group. Yahoo also has
one for Felder and, I think, Mini-Max. Sign up and ask
your questions of owners. Or, if you have questions about
the Robland X31 feel free to e-mail me - my address is
real - unlike many here.

charlie b