"Kirk Gordon" wrote in message
...

Ok. OK! I've been beat up enough. I KNEW I was wasting my time.

Aint nobody beatin nobody else up Kirk. Some folks just feel strongly bout
this issue as do they with most all other OT threads. Aint no biggie. And ya
aint wastin yer time either.

The part about being prepared to protect oneself is sorta
interesting, though. There's a not-quite-explicit undertone in all of
the responses to my post which seems to assume that I've never been in
danger, never dealt with violence, and that I live some sort of charmed
life which affords me the luxury of pretending that self-defense isn't
necessary or important. People who have faced danger, and who have
found a way to deal with it, sometimes appear to believe that thier's is
the only way, and that anyone who chooses differently must necessarily
do so out of ignorance.

Its not really dealing with danger. Its about assuming a mentality that
danger might find you. Bout being prepared and such. Its actually pretty
good training to hope that nothing bad will ever happen to ya but to realize
that it may. The problem is what that *may* might be.

Everybody has every right to live their lives in security and peace. The
problem arises when we do not think about all the nutzo's in the world and
how they operate. We dont have to make elaborate plans for everthing that
the jerks will try, but to at least acknowledge that there are some sick ass
people out there is a good start at defending yerself if need be. Hopefully
that will be never.

If someone is REALLY concerned about being "prepared for
eventualities, some of them remote", then doesn't he or she sorta NEED
the capacity to keep an open mind, and to recognize, habitually and
automatically, that things aren't always what they seem, and aren't
always as simple as they seem?

Exactly. But what cha gonna do when Rod Serling steps in and says this is
the Twighlight Zone?
You cant be prepared for everything. Even a top notch soldier or martial
artist will tell you that. All that training and you can choke at the last
minute. But for those times that you are prepared it comes in pretty handy.

If a gun is a good and important way to protect oneself, then why is
it that several of the pro-gun members of this group are also
accomplished martial artists? Doesn't that mean that there are times
when a gun isn't the best defense? Doesn't it mean that there are
sometimes alternatives about the best kind of protection? If so, then
why the almost universal assumption that alternatives aren't available
to ME, or that I've never had any reason even to consider the questions?

I never said I was an accomplished martial artist. Aint no Jackie Chan goin
on here. No true martial artist will tell you that they can overcome any
situation. If they do then they are lying to you. Same thing with Mr Gun
Toter. Its nothing more than a tool. Something to be learned but not used
unless you explicitly have ta. Same as yer body.

I'd LOVE to live a charmed life, untouched by hazzards and hardship;
but it's never happened. I grew up in NorthWest Detroit, in places
where, even 40 years ago, the cops never traveled alone. I paid part of
my way through college by working the midnight to 8 AM shift, alone, at
an all night gas station. I attended Wayne State University, right in
the center of center city Detroit, where crime and violence were more
common than I'd really care to remember. I worked for years in little
machine shops in places that had fenced parking lots with barbed wire,
and where it was considered foolish to enter or leave the building alone.

And all that time you never thought abut anything bad that could of happened
to you?

Now, I'll admit that I've never been in the military, never
knowingly killed anyone, and never done things like police work that
involved volunary acceptance of danger; but that doesn't mean I've never
lived in the real world. And, I've survived the real world - or as much
of it as I've been able to experience - on my own terms, without a gun,
and without ever feeling the need to walk around with my head down, or
my guard up, except in very rare situations that are pretty easy to
anticipate and avoid.

Can I interject a story? When I was younger, me and my bandmates went to the
7-11 to get us siome grub. Like 2am.
I didnt have a gun nor a knife. really didnt need one. We bought soup.
Heated it up and walked outside with the bowls burning our fingers. Only a
couple of blocks to my house. *pad*.. Not really a bad part of town either.
Well, seems we were accosted by 4 teens. Big guys too. I probably made a
mistake in taking some initiative while they were trying to cop money off my
friends and threw my soup in ther faces. But oh well. One had a knife that I
could see and I wasnt waitin around for the cut. The others took notice and
did the same. Talk about screaming! Never heard people scream so bad in my
life. Hot soup in their faces, oh yea! I still hear them screaming. I didnt
like having to do that. I'm sure they didnt like it either.

Now, was I wrong in defending myself? Especially with a bowl of soup? Or
were they wrong in screwing with me?

And, I don't consider myself to be exceptional. LOTS of people live
like I do. Many have faced much greater danger, and had more serious
problems, without ever developing the need to arm themselves, or to view
the world as an inherently threatening place.

But the world is not the Utopian idealogy that you grew up in Thomas. Its
not all that nice out there anymore.I wish it were different but it aint. I
dont view the whole world as a threatening place. But, I am going to go on
like I always have. Be aware and know what yer limitations are. In most
cases its better just to cut and run, but that dont happen all that
frequently.

There are a couple of signature lines, used commonly by several
group members, which say, in effect, that someone who doesn't own guns
must necessarily be afraid of them; and must therefore be less than a
man, and some kind of sub-human coward. I resent that idea personally,
of course; but I also wonder if the people who believe such things
aren't confessing their OWN lack of knowledge and experience. A friend
of mine, when I was much younger, did three tours of duty in the Navy
during the Viet Nam war - not on an aircraft carrier off the coast
somewhere; but in a plastic patrol boat on the Mekong river. He came
home with a whole box full of medals, including two purple hearts, and
with an absolutely unshakable dislike for firearms of any kind.

And I also know a guy that would go back in a hearbeat. Notice I have no
sigs.
I really dont think there is anybody on this ng that enjoys killing people
or beating the hell outa them.
For the most part people try to avoid those situations if they can.

Now, you can believe what you like about me. That doesn't matter
much one way or another. But if you really think that someone who
doesn't like guns is either ignorant or a coward, then how do you
explain my friend, who was defintely neither of those things? Could it
be that your OWN experience is too limited to include such people.

Yer friend saw something in himself after he got out. Thats a great
testimony to why war is hell. But while he was in, doing his duty, how many
did he kill?

It's one thing to keep your eyes and ears open, and to understand
that the world CAN be dangerous, at times. But it's quite another thing
to allow your whole life to be colored by the fear that danger lurks
around every corner, and that failure to be fully, constantly, overtly
prepared for it is proof of stupidity. Being alert and aware of your
surroundings doesn't just mean that you recognize danger in places where
other people can't. It should also mean that you recognize comfort, and
safety, and friendly faces, when you happen to encounter those.

Being prepared doesnt mean that yer life is full of fear. Actually it makes
you more aware of the friendly people out there.

If your view of the world is small enough, you probably CAN prepare
yourself to deal with it. And if you view your little world as
inherently hostile, then I guess that preparation just naturally
includes weapons. But the world - the real world - is a very big place;
and, if you're willing to face it without fear, it offers an endless
variety of things that you CAN'T anticipate, and CAN'T prepare for.
That's half the fun of being alive! Danger - at least the kind of
danger that a gun might protect you from - is not the world's dominant
feature. Open your eyes a little wider, broaden your horizons just a
bit, do some real, serious, open-minded versions of those 360
lookarounds, and you might find people and places that don't want to
harm you, and that you don't need to protect yourself from, and that
will welcome you into a whole new set of experiences that will actually
allow you to check your paranoia at the door.

Then why do we educate ourselves in math, science & literature?
You dont need to be paranoid to at least read things, try some math puzzles,
dabble in test tubes.
You also are not paranoid when you look at the world with yer sunglasses off
and realize that man is a predator. You dont have to get all weird about
it. I think most people are good in nature and expect that from others. But
then why do we lock our doors at night?

Of course, they might also REQUIRE you to check your paranoia before
they let you in. And that can be a problem, if you're not brave enough
to face the world unarmed.

Is that being brave or is that being stupid?

Bing