On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 01:31:57 -0700, "PW" wrote:
I'm looking into a 3 in 1 (need to save space and money) combo. I've looked
at the Shopmaster Eldorado, Smithy and Grizzley.

Use will be for turning some small shafts (12-20" long, 2-6" in diameter)
and making some beveled gears. Nothing real demanding I guess. I'd like it
to be CNC upgradable. The Shopmaster and Smithy seem to be pretty decent but
I'm not sure about the service/support from these companies. Grizzly seems
ok too, not sure how easy the CNC upgrade would be for it.

Material would be (most likely) 4130 steel.

I'm open for suggestions.

You won't be able to turn 20 inch lengths on either the Shopmaster or Grizzly.
The 20 inch spec on them is from spindle flange to tailstock barrel. When you
add a faceplate, driving dog, spindle and tailstock centers, you lose about 4 inches
(more if you use a chuck). Then you have to subtract the width of the saddle
(doubles as milling table) to see how much cutter travel you actually have.
So figure the longest turned surface you can make will be a bit under 10 inches.
These machines are fairly decent short lathes, but short is the operative word.
Smithy does make a long bed machine (36 inches) that could do it, but it is
pretty expensive.

Realize also that none of these machines are very good as mills. The mill
heads aren't very rigidly mounted, and the work envelope is really cramped.
The lack of rigidity means you have to take very light cuts to avoid chatter.
You'll need an index head mounted on a sine plate to cut the gears. You'd
run out of room to do that for gears much over 2 inches. (It isn't the gear size
so much as it is the size of the index head and sine plate that eats up the
room.)

These machines are ok for small work, and for milling aluminum or brass,
but for your jobs in your materials, you need bigger equipment. I'd suggest
at minimum a 12x36 lathe, better a 14x40 (note, a used 10 inch South Bend
would do, but I'm talking mainly about new imports here), and at least the
largest of the mill/drills (RF30 type). Much better would be a knee type mill.

Yes the two machines will be larger, and weigh more than the 3-N-1, but
you need the size, and you need the weight (for rigidity). On the used market,
you could very likely get both for less money than a 3-N-1 too.

I've been down this road. I started out with a Shoptask (now Shopmaster).
Then I very quickly bought a RF30 mill/drill as I discovered the inadequacies
of a 3-N-1 as a mill. Then I bought a 13x40 lathe to handle longer pieces, and
to be able to single point thread them. Now I have a 15x60 Colechester Triumph
2000 lathe and a Bridgeport size mill. Unfortunately, with machine tools, size
does matter.

The one nice thing about the Shopmaster is that it is already set up for adding
CNC (the cog pulleys are mounted and the stepper mounts are there). But you
have to realize that its work envelope is smaller than you imagined, and it still
isn't a very good mill. For a model shop that never handles anything longer than
about 10 inches, and works mainly with aluminum or brass, it is pretty good.
But for things larger or harder than that, it is woefully lacking.

So in closing, eiher rethink the size of your projects, or rethink the size of
the machinery you need. You won't be able to do what you want with the
size machines you're thinking about.

Gary