Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:08:26 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:48:02 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Guido wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:


This is a time in US history when there are no clear goals, no
direction, no generally agreed idea of "progress." It is a time
of stagnancy and ennui. It will pass, but, until it does,
absolutist religion is an answer that is attractive to the many
people who are extremely uncomfortable with all of the
uncertainty and lack of direction.


Yep we were watching some documentary a week or so ago on
Fundamentalist/Creationist/IDers and there was an overwhelming
sense that here was a group of people looking for absolute
assurances, something solid they could cling to whilst the world
around them shifted.

The entire issue reminds me of the "Red Scare" of the 50's.
I have yet to see a credible piece of objective evidence that
anyone is being denied the right to practice religion outside the
confines of Publicly financed places. There does, on the other
hand, appear to be an ongoing effort to subvert and divert public
moneys to support an entire host of religious groups or
perspectives. That effort isn't meeting with much success and it
won't in all likelyhood.
Noone in the US is denied their religious preference or the ability
to practice it. That isn't the same thing as being able to use
public resources to promote the same.

Hummm could be. It sounds very similar to the big scare the leftists
are pushing about lack of freedoms, encroaching slavery, removal of
privacy etc etc.

I have heard little about lacking freedoms or encroaching slavery but
privacy is out the door for now.
Personally, I think your neighborhood could be made terrorist free
for certain if everybody's guns were confiscated.
That doesn't count for much but if W decides that is the case you're
****ed. In fact, you will have ****ed yourself ( yes, Again).

But W wont decide that. Thats one of the things we can be sure of.

Hillary might and I wouldn't be so sure W won't. You talk an awful lot about
killing American citicens and that sounds pretty much like a terrorist to
me.

As
I said..Im seeing lots of "what ifs", including from you as you wrote
above, but nothing "Is".

Well you see that's the thing. Laws aren't worth much if you can't count on
them.




Ive yet to see a credible piece of objective evidence that anyone
has lost their freedoms or privacy because of interception of phone
calls, or having their library records checked, or even as a direct
result of the Patriot Act.

Well, Jose Padilla sure did. He'd be serving a legitimate prison
sentence by now if he'd been charged timely. As it is he may walk.
Pretty ****ing stupid don't you think?

You mean Abdullah Al Muhajir?

Who?

Im rather sure he has been sucked dry, and if worst comes to worst..we
ship him back to Pakistan, and they stand him up against a wall and
simply shoot him.


Why would an American citizen be shipped anywhere to be shot by the US
government?
Have I missed something?

But in November he was formally charged:

Yes, having been held for three years he was. Just before the Supremes would
have had the opportunity to rule on the legal basis for his detention BTW. I
found that interesting.


Padilla was charged with three counts -- conspiracy to murder U.S.
nationals, conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists and
providing material support to terrorists.


What makes you think he may walk? As far as I can tell..its a toss up
wether a military court or a Federal court tries and convicts him.

He is an American citizen and because he was denied due process there won't
be any evidence that will be admitted in a Federal court if his detention is
ruled to have violated his constitutional rights. That will be decided by a
court and not W.
The DOJ just went through this in another case about a month ago and the
perp walked. I'd say another criminal is about to go free. That's not right
and it wouldn't be happening if the law had been followed. It wasn't.


Either way..the little scumbag is hosed.

It might or might not happen that a lot of cases go out the window for the
lack of admissible evidence soon. How happy will you be to see these people
go free when they could have been convicted and put away?


I do have a question for you though. If Bush is so smart why in hell isn't
Saddam dead. I mean, didn't anybody in the administration realize that his
trial would be exactly the sort of mockery we don't need? His dead body
would have been a better example than what we are seing today and Hussein
has no rights. He really was the enemy.

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com