On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:08:26 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:48:02 GMT, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Guido wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:


This is a time in US history when there are no clear goals, no
direction, no generally agreed idea of "progress." It is a time of
stagnancy and ennui. It will pass, but, until it does, absolutist
religion is an answer that is attractive to the many people who are
extremely uncomfortable with all of the uncertainty and lack of
direction.


Yep we were watching some documentary a week or so ago on
Fundamentalist/Creationist/IDers and there was an overwhelming sense
that here was a group of people looking for absolute assurances,
something solid they could cling to whilst the world around them
shifted.

The entire issue reminds me of the "Red Scare" of the 50's.
I have yet to see a credible piece of objective evidence that anyone
is being denied the right to practice religion outside the confines
of Publicly financed places. There does, on the other hand, appear
to be an ongoing effort to subvert and divert public moneys to
support an entire host of religious groups or perspectives. That
effort isn't meeting with much success and it won't in all
likelyhood.
Noone in the US is denied their religious preference or the ability
to practice it. That isn't the same thing as being able to use
public resources to promote the same.

Hummm could be. It sounds very similar to the big scare the leftists
are pushing about lack of freedoms, encroaching slavery, removal of
privacy etc etc.

I have heard little about lacking freedoms or encroaching slavery but
privacy is out the door for now.
Personally, I think your neighborhood could be made terrorist free for
certain if everybody's guns were confiscated.
That doesn't count for much but if W decides that is the case you're ****ed.
In fact, you will have ****ed yourself ( yes, Again).

But W wont decide that. Thats one of the things we can be sure of. As
I said..Im seeing lots of "what ifs", including from you as you wrote
above, but nothing "Is".


Ive yet to see a credible piece of objective evidence that anyone has
lost their freedoms or privacy because of interception of phone calls,
or having their library records checked, or even as a direct result of
the Patriot Act.

Well, Jose Padilla sure did. He'd be serving a legitimate prison sentence by
now if he'd been charged timely. As it is he may walk.
Pretty ****ing stupid don't you think?

You mean Abdullah Al Muhajir?
Im rather sure he has been sucked dry, and if worst comes to worst..we
ship him back to Pakistan, and they stand him up against a wall and
simply shoot him.
But in November he was formally charged:

Padilla was charged with three counts -- conspiracy to murder U.S.
nationals, conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists and
providing material support to terrorists.


What makes you think he may walk? As far as I can tell..its a toss up
wether a military court or a Federal court tries and convicts him.

Either way..the little scumbag is hosed.

Gunner


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner