On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:47:05 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:02:45 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell
wrote:

In article , Andy Hall
wrote:


It may disappoint you to hear this, but generally people are able to think
for and look after themselves and don't need to be nannied by a union or
anyone else.

You're saying that someone whose job is designing, making or selling widgets
should be as competent in employment law and conditions as someone whose job
is employment law and conditions and that when the two disagree about matters
of employment law and conditions relating to the employment of the former then
they are debating at equal strength. You're either a fool or a rogue if that's
what you are saying - and that *is* what you are saying.

I didn't say or even imply that at all.

It's interesting that when people are arguing a weak point based on
what amounts to a religious conviction, they see everything in black
and white as you are doing.

Very obviously there are shades of grey.


It suits the union ideology to believe that he average member is not
able to look after himself and needs to have his hand held by the
union rep and hierarchy.

That doesn't look much like a shade of grey to me.

There *are* people who are not particularly articulate, poorly educated,
very shy, insecure, or who go to pieces under stress. They clearly
benefit from being morally supported and advised of the rules.

Obviously, not everybody does. And a Union isn't the only way that help
and support can be given.

But it's one way. And having a small network of well trained and
involved representatives may well be the most cost effective way of
doing it.
--
On-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk

(Waterways World site of the month, April 2001)