"Andy Hall" aka Matt wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:25:03 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
The thread was essentially about the value of union involvement in the
employer/employee scene. My contention is that the value is very
limited, especially from the employee perspective because the idea of
allowing a third party to negotiate on one's behalf leads at best to a
sense of false security.

You seem to have developed an understanding of Unions' involvement in
industry
from right-wing tabloids.

I don't read right wing tabloids so that isn't correct.

Don't let the policeman hear you.

You're wrong. You're up the creek. You haven't got
the slightest idea what you're on about. &many, many &c.



I really don't have time to take you from yoyr current understanding to a
real
appreciation of the truth - best done by simply reversing all your
preconceptions.

Firstly, I don't have preconceptions at all.

Stop making things up.

Secondly, as soon as somebody suggests that they are going to give me
an "appreciation of the truth" or words of that effect, I am
immediately suspicious.

Most union work is done quietly, in the background, and is
about the minor stuff that means nothing to the outside world and
everything
to the individuals involved. It's the sort of stuff that adds up to
everyone
getting on with their job far, far better - not to mention, safer,
happier,
and healthier. Every hour of every day union reps will be ensuring that
people
who may be good at their job, but not good at defending or promoting
themselves, are properly represented. They will be telling busy managers
that
there is already an agreement to cover what otherwise seems to be heading
for
a dispute. And they will be highlighting potential H&S problems before
someone
is killed. Left to their own devices managers will (in my personal
experience)
insist on an employee with asthma working in a closed section with
half-a-dozen chain smokers, precipitate strikes because they misrepresent
company policy, tell staff they have failed to get their (much needed)
promotion whilst they are dealing with the public, insist on storing
chemicals
in an unsafe condition that could get the premises closed and the company
heavily fined (at best). All examples put right (or changed for the
future) by
union involvement at little cost. Little things.

None of which require involvement of unions or any other group
constituted organisation.



--

.andy