Rod Speed wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote
Rod Speed wrote
John R. Carroll wrote
Rod Speed wrote
F. George McDuffee wrote
John R. Carroll wrote

FWIW -- to be insane is not to be stupid. If you are smart
and insane, you are even more dangerous to the public.

Terrorists who are stupid enough to buy the line that blowing
themselves to bits will see an instant transport to nirvana in
spades.

People who perpetrate suicide attacks are acting on the belief that
their deaths will have more purpose than their lives ever could
have.

Or they 'think' that, anyway. Quite a few end up with just
as completely pointless a death as their pathetic excuse
for a 'life' before that, most obviously with those who
make a complete hash of blowing themselves to bits and
only succeed in killing themselves and no one else etc.

Yes, they think that way. You have made my point for me.

Nope, that is nothing like your original line.

Sure it is. You are correct that they don't always carry it off properly but
that's irrelevant. They are successful often enough to set the desired
example. It isn't the number that screw up that counts, it's the number that
don't and the size and scope of the mess they make.
The failures are quickly forgotten.


The disconnect is complete.

No it isnt with many of them.

Quite a few of them just realise that its an approach that
is close to impossible to prevent, and they consider that
as long as they take lots of those they hate with them, that
they have achieved a lot more than they otherwise could.

People used to think the earth was flat as well.

Irrelevant to what was being discussed.

In this case, their perception becomes our reality to
some degree. We are the ones cleaning up after all.

Yep, particularly when its impossible to stop that sort of thing
completely.

This would all stop in a heartbeat if we were to have GM and
GE build a bunch of manufacturing capacity in the affected areas.

Wrong. That aint what drives fantatics like that.

These people are driven by whoever scoops them into the fold. They wouldn't
come up with it on their own.


People would be to busy learning, working and actually improving the
quality of their existence to give any thought to blowing up
anything.

Have fun explaining the likes of Atta who did plenty
of that stuff, and chose to blow stuff up anyway.

Not himself he didn't. He had a purpose and that purpose is to use the
broken among his people to do his will.
He has both hope and a plan and his hopes and plans are what he lives for.



Quite a few of them are surprisingly well qualified, at a
much better level than monkeys on an assemblyline too.

Not the suicide bombers, only their recruiters and trainers.



bin Laden in spades.

You clearly havent actually got a clue about what drives people like
that.

They'd have a less violent and more stable means to attain their
goals.

Have fun explaining bin laden, atta, top, etc etc etc.

You seem to want to combine the master and the tool into a common group.
They aren't.
The guys running the show and the hopeless are two distinct peoples. The
master and the drones if you will.


Great, I'll be paying close attention to your explanation.
You do have one don't you?

Yep.

I'm all ears, well almost.



It is indeed but that's the basis. The behavior becomes
ingrained over time because it produces the desired result.

Yep, but they clearly do have that hope, and quite a bit of
the time they do get at least part of what they are aiming for,
most obviously with the tamils and palestinians and lebanon.

Even you should have noticed that Raygun pulled the troops out
after one of the most successful suicide bombings of all time.

His other options weren't viable and he knew it. There wasn't anything in
Beirut worth the cost of staying.
There isn't, or wasn't at least, anything in Iraq either. 41 was right and
made a good call. 43 is learning that the hard way.



That makes them easy targets to convert. Check
out an AA or Christian revival meeting sometime
and you will see something along these lines.

Nope, nothing like it. Hardly any of those blow themselves to bits.

Only because their hopelessness is replaced with something else.

Nope, essentially because thos cults have always
frowned on that sort of thing except in wartime.

Not the big ones. The smaller groups didn't have the fodder to waste.


A cult is still a cult, regardless,

Yes, but quite a few of them have been
quite successful over a millenium or two.

Sure, why not. They can be useful, even benificial. Bin Laden knows that.



and the condition of the initiates is what we
are discussing here not the comparative results.

Wrong again.

Well, it's the point I was making and you have yet to provide any rational
for your pronouncements....

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com