IMHO, many of the safety regulations of the NEC are not directed at the
"competent" person, but at the incompetent people that follow afterwards



"Generator" wrote in message
ups.com...
I found the guys really helpful www.lionsun.co.uk when I called them
up they explained it all to me. Actually it is very simple..

They helped me.

Pete C. wrote:
Waldo wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Waldo wrote:

Vaughn wrote:

"Pop" wrote in message
...


Sooo, all that "data" means it's OK to kill someone that way as
long as it's just a once in awhile thing, eh? "Snot my fault; he
shouldn'ta been workin so tired trying to help all dem peoples!"


Oh dear! Whenever this subject comes up, we never fail to get
the same
fodder from the amateur Internet moralists. Nothing is fail safe, I
point my
car at hundreds of innocent people every day and there is nothing to
keep me
from accidentally killing them, save my (very average) driving
skills.

Please save the moralizing and stick to the facts.

Vaughn



Well, it amazes me that there are so many people that have
so many excuses for not properly, and safely, connecting
their generators to their electrical systems. They talk
about safely using suicide cords, throwing main breakers and
other hogwash such as using a sign to remind them to throw
the breakers.


There is nothing improper or unsafe about a temporary generator
hookup
when done by a competent person. "Throwing the main breaker" is
exactly
what some approved transfer switches do, they have two very ordinary
circuit breakers mounted opposite each other and a link bar between
the
handles. The only difference between this arrangement and the "turn
off
the main and back feed the dryer circuit" temporary connection is the
link bar.


Not quite. A transfer switch prevents the possibility of
having both sides connected at the same time.

Well, that is what they attempt to do. They do however fail on occasion.


A competent person switches off and tags the main breaker before they
even haul out the generator, double checks it again after turning off
the dryer circuit breaker and connecting the "suicide cable", starts
the
generator and then finally reviews the main breaker once more before
turning on the dryer circuit breaker to power the panel.


Depends upon your definition of a competent person. Joe-blow
may certainly think he's competent because he knows how to
do it as you described above. I think I'm competent and
that's why my generator hookup is to code requirements - via
a transfer switch and proper sized cable and connectors.

Your generator hookup is a permanent installation, even if the generator
itself is not part of the installation. Pretty common to see at telecom
sites as well, permanently installed transfer switchgear and a big ol'
IEC style plug on the outside of the building (or ped) to connect a
towable generator to when needed. Allows a smaller fleet of towable
generators to service multiple sites and also allows central storage and
servicing of those generators.

Also quite common to see a small Honda generator chained to the base of
a pole and powering a cable TV power supply. No transfer switch here,
just switch of the main disconnect and wire in the extension cord.



The fact that the NEC requires generators to be connected
with isolation switches
My bad, should have read 'transfer switches'

An isolating transfer switch would be one type. Also have less common
make before break paralleling transfer switches.

seems to go right over their heads.
They apparently think it's ok for them to bypass code
requirements because 'they know what they're doing' and
neither them, nor someone else trying to use their generator
will ever make a mistake! Pretty arrogant attitude if you
ask me.


The NEC requires double throw transfer switches or approved
equivalents
for permanent generator installations. A temporary hookup of a
portable
generator in an emergency situation is not within the scope of the
NEC.
Nothing "arrogant" about not not following code that is not
applicable.

Agreed, but depends upon your definition of an emergency
situation. If someone is on a heart-lung machine, or
something of that nature, and a back-up power source is not
available and a generator must be brought in to provide
power then I would consider that to be an emergency
requirement. But a power outage for a few hours is not a
real emergency for most homes, an inconvenience perhaps, but
not an emergency.

Everything is relative, but in an ice storm where there is a real risk
of damage from frozen pipes in a short time period that would meet my
definition of emergency. If there are children or elderly who are not as
able to handle the cold as a typical healthy adult that would be an
emergency. In hot weather were some people would be at risk without A/C.



Bottom line - if you're going to use a generator to energize
your home do it right! Use an isolation switch! The code
requires it for the safety of everyone involved!


It is asinine to claim that you should always install a transfer
switch
in order to connect a generator, transfer switches only make sense in
permanent installations.


And how do you define a permanent installation? I have a
portable generator that gets connected through a transfer
switch to the house during extended power outages. When line
power comes back on the generator gets disconnected and
rolled back into the shop. This is not a permanent
installation, but code still requires it be connected via a
transfer switch.

You have a permanent installation of generator connection facilities.
The generator itself need not be a part of that installation.


If a person has a generator on hand and intends to use it
during power outages then that person should have the means
to connect it properly and safely..

And that means can include the knowledge of how to make a safe temporary
connection for the one or two times a year they may need it. If it's a
fairly frequent occurrence then it justifies at least a basic transfer
switch installation, once or twice a year does not if the user is
competent.

Pete C.