On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:31:07 +0000, John wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:06:44 +0000 (UTC), John wrote:

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in
message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:


Well i think that you should call Corgi for advise regards your
chimney
liner..Any gas engineer will tell you a standard brick chimney DOES
NOT
required a liner so long as it is in good condition ,,,meets the
correct sizes,,,and passes the flue flow test....there are regulations
that confuse non gas trained people///ive serviced tens of thousands
of
gas fires WITHOUT liners....If the smoke test proves a faulty Flue
then
i advise that a flue liner is required..

Thius is completely WRONG

Brick chimneys MUST be lined with

- socketed clay liners or
- imperforate clay pipes or
- socketed cement pipes. or
- fixed metal tubes or
= felxible liners for chimneys already equipped or built before 1966

This is a Building Regulation.

You mean....

Gasman is talking out of his arse?

Must be where his nick comes from.

To put things into context -

New chimneys must be built to meet building regs - no-one is arguing
against
that

Old chimneys were not and may have worked just fine for many years.
Fitting
a gas fire to a preused solid fuel flue which is swept prior to the
installation, inspected in good order and passes flue flow and after
installation passes no spillage test is permissible. If the old flue is
not
in good order or does not pass the tests then a liner will be required.

No. Installing a gas fire comes under a 'material change' and is subject o
building control.

Building control specifies uprating old chimneys to something approaching
modern standards.

You and I know that this is probably totally uneccesary if the chimney
passed the tests you describe.

Nonetheless, in the building regulations, it is.

I don;t want to say more than that the building regulations are available
online,and the OP should check them. If he chooses to do the work outside
building regulations, that is his affair, but I think the facts of the
regulatory position should be stated, and to the very best of my knowledge
I have stated them correctly.



As I am now retired from such work I may be not up to date with very recent
gas reg requirements. Can Ed or someone else add anything here.
It seems pretty stupid if the gas ACS training and assessment courses are
pushing a situation which turns out to be at variance with building regs and
quite frankly Id be amazed if they are. Who or which is right here?

My understanding (based on having done my ACS reassessment this year) is
that there is no prohibition on using an existing swept Class I brick
chimney in good order as a gas flues.

There is a requirement to inform building control about the installation
of gas appliances and flues (possibly only heating appliances), however
CORGI members have access to a self certification scheme which allows them
to notify the installation of all gas appliances and flues and the removal
of boilers. Also several other notifiable work activities such as a single
electrical circuit, ventilation. Alas it does not include self
certification for unvented cylinders even if you hold a 'G3' card.

There are plenty of gas fires on the market which either require or permit
the use of a swept Class I chimney as a flue subject to satisfactory
inspection and testing.

In my experience a chimney can have as good a 'draw' on it as a liner if
not better.

I have been to a gas fire installation this year which had been subject
to an CORGI/HSE investigation following problems:

The defect list included:
No purpose provided ventilation.
Soldered gas pipe under burner (not permitted by makers for this model).
Manual damper not secured or removed (this was the 'hanging' offence).
Unsleeved supply pipe as it went through the wall.
Leaking supply pipe on restrictor elbow (this was the 'presenting' problem).

The above was perpetrated by an unregistered fireplace firm, no longer
trading.

No mention was made of the unsuitability of the existing chimney as a
flue.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html