On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:53:20 GMT, "josh" wrote:

:Comments inserted
:
:"Dan_Musicant" wrote
:
: They do have the cap, but I didn't see any going up the conveyor belt,
: although at the time I didn't know about them and wasn't looking for
: them. I read your post that mentioned the cap a day or two later and it
: didn't ring a bell, so I suspected that they'd cut for cap.
:
an, the brand of cap won't sabotage the perfomance of the covering. I'm
:just anal about aesthetics, some people probably wouldn't notice, even
:if/when it was pointed out. I probably notice this practice, because I'm in
:the business, and it rubs me the wrong way.

OK, then I probably won't bug them about that. However, I think they may
have to replace the ridge cap in which event I may say something about
the replacement cap and ask them if they will use z-ridge, or whatever
it is that Elk Corp. supplies. Another poster in this thread, though,
says z-ridge is a bitch for some reason.
:
: I see that. I have a 3 tab shingle in the room with me and can see that
: the overlap is barely more than an inch. Not all the shingles look the
: same, by a long shot, but this one has a whitish line at about the
: midway point in the overlap, and I assume that's the nail line and I
: guess they should really be on that line, not so much as a 1/4" below it
: or the nail can be seen, at least from the side.
:
:I was thinking maybe they did nail on-line, but used the nail line, to align
:the bottom of the shingle? I believe Elk has a 5-5/8" exposure (you would
:have to check me on this). The bottom of each shingle should be aligned to
:the "cut out" of the previous shingle. But then again, since I've seen
ff-line nailing by the hundreds, nothing surprises me.

No, I think that mostly they nailed off line. I watched them nail some
and they were too fast. They were putting in the nails almost 1/second.
That's just too fast for accuracy. I could see that the variation was up
to, maybe more than an inch in the vertical between some of the nails.
That's way too lax, I can see now. I saw one where they put two nails
less than an inch apart! The nailer must have thought that since he'd
missed where he intended the first one to go, another might correct the
error. Actually, I can see both!!! I don't think these guys quite know
what they are doing, at least some of them. They were all Spanish
speaking and most of them had almost no English. I could communicate
fairly well with the crew chief, although his English was pretty
chopped. The project manager, who came by every two days or so has
better English. He's the guy who's coming tomorrow and I can only hope
that he will see fit to really fix the errors.

I read the instructions on the Elk Corp. packaging today and see it says
"under no conditions should the overhang at the rake or eaves exceed 3/4
inch." I see a lot of places where it's obviously more than an inch and
some places where it's apparently as much as 1.75 inches, maybe more!

The packaging also says you have to use a different underlayment scheme
if the rise/run is under 4/12. It says to double the layers and have a
19" overlap. I measured the r/r on my large north dormer (20' x 25')
today and it's only 2.71/12! I'm almost positive they didn't do anything
for the underlayment any different than the rest of the roof - 30 lb.
felt, with minimal overlaps. That's the section of roof with far and
away the most exposed nails (I counted 42 today), and I guess I should
insist on a tearoff, adequate underlayment and a proper nailing of new
shingles.
:
:Also, not just online nailing is important, but placement of the nails.
:Example- 1" in from each end, and 1 foot in from each end (or manufacturer
:recommendations). You don't want nails any closer than 2" from butt end of
:shingles.

What do you mean by the last sentence?
:
:
: I'm wondering how I'll know if they did a kludge and reused the shingles
: with holes in them or replaced them with new shingles. I guess I could
: get up there on the roof and watch them like a hawk, but I was trying to
: avoid that scenario. I suppose I was engaging in a lot of wishful
: thinking when I put so much trust in these guys. This is my first
: contract in my life. I was hopeful but I'm taking my knocks now. I'll
: find out what they say this morning, the estimator (who I think is also
: one of the company owners, probably, or at least a higher up), and the
: project manager who I'm going to call in an hour or so.
:
:Being anal like I am, I probably would take a can of fluorescent spray paint
:and mark each bad shingle. That way I would know which ones they replaced,
r should've replaced. I'm not suggesting you do this, but just something I
:would do.

I don't know if I'll do that. I may do something, though, something to
identify those shingles.
:
: The estimator told me they roofed with integrity, did the job right.
: They appear to take a lot of pride in correcting mistakes, so maybe they
: will correct these. How do you correct an exposed nail? How many
: shingles do they have to pull and replace and how? How many in a given
: area before it makes more sense to pull the whole area and replace them
: all? Thanks for the help!
:
:Well, with as many goofs as you explained, I hardly believe for one minute,
:that they roof with integrity. No one should have that many mistakes on one
:roof. The damaged shingles needs replaced, nothing less would do, for a
:newly done job. I would not settle for sealant of any type.

In closely inspecting the entire roof (I couldn't see the eaves very
well, because I don't have an extension ladder) I spotted 2-3 nails that
they covered with some kind of caulk and then spray painted. They were
using a spray paint supplied by Elk that matches the shingle color
(Shakewood). They used some of that spray on the caulk! I am going to
tell them not to do any more of that. If they want to, I'll try to get
the Elk rep over here and/or a professional inspector for a bona fide
assessment and report on what's going on.

:To replace a
:shingle, you need to pull the fasteners from the shingle/s above the bad
ne, plus the fasteners in the bad one.
:
:
: PS I was wondering if there's any way to repair at least some of the
: exposed heads (maybe the ones down flush and barely showing). I'm
: probably naive, but I thought that maybe inserting a small rectangle
: (1.5" x 2") of thin stainless steel with sealant/adhesive under it over
: each exposed nail might make a permanent fix that would last decades.
: They could be sprayed with color matching paint. I know, it's probably a
: foolish dream.
:
:I wouldn't waste my time, just have it done correctly.

I was just thinking out loud. Sometimes I think "what will I do if I
don't get my way"? Maybe I was too hopeful, too trusting with these
people. Well, if they don't make any money, even if they lose money on
my contract, they will only have themselves to blame and they should
take it as a learning experience. They have to tighten up their training
program and their oversight. Thanks, Josh.