On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 20:56:05 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 18:14:44 +0000 (GMT), John Cartmell
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
I have seen little evidence of that in the state schools my children
have attended. They have all coped well with ranges of abilities.

Sadly this does not appear to be the norm as is evidenced by the
declining standards produced.

If you have noticed declining standards then you're looking at the wrong
figures.

I've looked at the exam papers, the grades and the eventual outcomes.
We both know what Disraeli had to say on the subject of figures.

Whilst the exam papers were the totality of the GCE and A Levels when I took
them that is no longer the case. Comparing examination papers is not comparing
like with like.

For a given subject, e.g. in maths or science, the basics haven't
changed. Kundt's tube still has a plunger, and Archimedes still
screws.

The basics of any subject remain important, however they are packaged
up, and in that respect, standards have most certainly declined.


When one-third of the population (or less) goes on to take any
examination after the age of 11 it is far easier to show that a large
proportion of examinees reach a certain level. When over 99% are examined some
exam papers have to be set at a lower level.

That's the whole point. There should be completely separate exams so
that the achievers are stretched.

The high flyers today compare
very well with those in my days starting a sixth form course a year early and
passing S-Level exams in the third year sixth or going to university at age
17.

The question there is whether they are universities or "universities".

Except that there are more of them. Those who were leaving school with few
numeracy or literacy skills at age 15 are now passing those levels at primary
school.

As indeed they were before the introduction of comprehensive
education.


There are changes. I learnt my times tables forwards and backwards and to 16x
and that is rare today. I learnt poems. I learnt to box - real bouts and real
blood in the classroom under teacher supervision - aged 8. I didn't learn to
use a calculator or a computer, woodwork lasted only one year (but my towel
rack was quite good!), I never had any cookery, metalwork, electronics, or
commerce lessons.

Education is different. Kids learn different things. Kids are worse at some of
the sort of things I was (supposed) to have learnt. Standards declined? No.

The acid test is the outcome. I am far from being convinced that
today's schools are producing the education required to match the
abilities of the pupils and the needs of the economy.



--

..andy