On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 13:23:25 GMT, "KOA" wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
ink.net...
"KOA" wrote in message
news:YVIaf.30986$bb3.8507@trnddc02...
In my house, none of the outlets are grounded, although they are all
three
prong. I discovered an outlet which appears to have a grounding prong
broken
off in it. I can't tell for sure. All I know is I can't plug in any
three-prong plug.
Is it safe to try to just yank the prong out with pliers?
Or should I just install one of those plug adapters, which convert
3-prong
to 2-prong??
The problem is, there is no way for me to remove the box, since I can
never
be certain if I have turned off power to the outlet, even if I shut off
the
circuit. The problem is a voltage detector cannot be plugged into the
outlet
to confirm no power, since it is 3-prong. Could I just use a multimeter
instead to detect voltage? Or use a circuit finder to verify that both
outlets go to the same circuit? I can't shut off the entire house either,
since some of my circuits might run through my neighbor's circuits, so I
would have to shut off his power too.
Thanks for any help.
Call someone that knows about electricity. To test the circuit you can
always plug in a two wire plug device such as a lamp.
Oh, duh!! Never though of that. 
The ground prong
normally carries no current. If you were sure it is actually the ground
plug, you could just pull out the broken piece with some insulated pliers.
If you have a multimeter or one of the neon bulb circuit testers with
leads
you can also use that to verify you have the outlet circuit turned off at
the fuse/breaker panel.
Yeah, except I want to be sure that each outlet in the box is on the same
circuit. So the only way to do this would be to shut off every circuit in
the sub-panel.
If you have two people, you can have one at the fusebox and one by the
outlet, watching the lamp. Or with one person, you could use a radio
set loud enough to hear it at the fuse box. Then you can shut off
the circuits one at a time until you find the right one.
This sort of efficiency only matters because of digital clocks and
cheap vcr's and tv's that might forget the time or other settings if
you disconnecdt them even for a few seconds. (though most appliances
use a back up 9 volt battery or a capacitor or non-volatile memory so
they don't forget things in less than what, 10 minutes, a half hour?)
Or, you could turn on all the lights and something in every
receptacle, and tour the house each time after a cb is switched off,
making notes about what has been disconnnected. Make a detailed list
and put it in the fuse box. Laminate it maybe so it will last for
another 100 years.
Back to hunting down the circuit for every light and receptacle: You
can turn the circuit breaker or fuse back on after you find what it
dsconnects. But when you find that a lamp has gone off, plug the lamp
into the other half of the receptacle to make sure it has gone off
too. I don't think it was very common to split receptacles, except
maybe if one is wired through a wall switch and the other half isn't.
Especially here because they didn't play such clever games in the
1800's and when the house was rewired, I doubt anyone would go to the
ttrouble of running two lines to the same receptacle.
Furthermore, you don't really have to know about every receptacle.
You'll probably never have to repair any of them, and if you do, you
can test then to make sure both halves are disconnected.
BTW, my first house had one fuse for ceiling fixtures in more than one
room,, and another fuse for receptacles in more than one room. This
has the big advantage that if you blow the fuse with a lamp, you still
have the ceiling fixture to see with, and vice versa. But the house
was built that way. I wouldn't expect a house built without
electricity (yours?) to be this well done. Electricians were probably
very expensive when this house was wired.
Also, few houses had 3-prong outlets until what, 40 years ago. People
used electricity for almost 100 years before then and mostly without
trouble. The ground plug is only a secondary safety backup for all,
iiuc, appliances.
IIUC, it only helps when a wire inside short to a metal case that the
person using the appliance touches. It's much more common for a wire
to break than to short. Or maybe motor windings short, but they short
from one side of the plug to the other, and they blow the fuse.
Most home appliances don't have metal cases in the first place, except
some space heaters and some kitchen things, like toasters. Don't most
of these things still come with 2-prong plugs? If so, a 3-prong
outlet does you no good.
Home power tools used to have 3-prong plugs and metal cases, but now
almost all have plastcic cases (and therefore have 2-prong plugs.)
Your refrigerator, washing machine, and I forget but probably the
dishwasher have 3-prong plugs. Take care of those first.
And room air conditioners.
Check your house and see what else has them. If something has a
two-prong plug, a three-prong receptacle gives no added protection,
grounded or not.
How do you know they're not grounded. If you have BX cable, with the
coiled metal sheath, that is probably the ground.
You have a tenant who rewired part of your house!! This reminds me
of the time a roommate borrowed my bicycle (I'd told him he could
borrow the older one) and readjusted my front wheel bearing, and
didn't tell me. I didn't find out until I had a flat 10 miles from
home and when I patched the tube I noticed it was adjusted WRONG. I
was really mad at him. Not only shouldn't he have done it at all, he
should have notified me immediately if he did, and he should have done
it right. The jackass thought he knew more about bicycles than I did.
Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.