"Ian Clowes" wrote in message
...


John wrote:

Explanation of [1] - I've known the joiners dad for 25 years and he's a
good
friend of mine. He's done good work in his dad's house, so that was good
enough for me. Trouble now is that if I complain or fire him off (which I
feel like doing), that's going to cause hassle between me and his dad and
I
don't want that.

What would you do?

Hi John

I think that at the heart of it, kitchen fitting and general joinery are
quite different things, unless he's fitting bespoke, solid wood
kitchens. Some of the tools are the same, but I think much of being a
good joiner is learning the various tips, tricks and almost nuances that
make doors swing properly, scribing rather than mitering skirting, etc.
Modern kitchen fitting has its own tricky parts, but they're different
ones.

The skirting looks so odd it's hard to believe there hasn't been some
misunderstanding. When you said 'we'd like this wall to look like that
one' has he got the idea that thinks he's been asked to make a boxed
section all around? Is it worth revisiting the plans, or popping down
to Jewson with him to pick out what you actually want/need?

Whatever you are, you'll have a different dynamic in the relationship
than he does with his dad. What type of person are you? Do you give
precise directions that some people hate because they squash their
creative spirit, but everyone grudgingly knows where they're going? Or
a conceptual type that kind of knows the desired endpoint but has no
particular plan or care as to how you get there, and also think its fine
(and indeed appropriate) to adjust the job as it goes?

Is the lad's heart in the work? Without knowing the circumstances I can
imagine he feels obliged to help out where you/his dad have asked but
may be well aware himself that this type of work isn't his forte. Are
you sure it'll trouble his dad? He might be saying to his dad every
night that he's looking forward to the end of this job. Did you have to
mention this more than once to get him along, perhaps masking an
unstated belief on their side that he'd be better off not involved?

At it's simplest, assuming he has regular work elsewhere, if you were in
his (relatively) young shoes would you rather be earing an extra £10 per
hour, or enjoying yourself somewhere else? Does he have the time to
make a good job, or is he having to make do with what he can grad fron
Do It All on the way home?

A couple of ways out:

- Tell him you're rethinking the designs, and could do with a break to
get your thoughts straight before carrying on. You could use this to
test if he's really interested in carrying on in (say) a month, or feels
his own work might get busier (hence letting him slip away at his own
choice). If you do this you shouldn't keep him hanging on for the work
(although if he's desperate for the money there are ramifications to all
get out plans...).

- Ask him straight if he feels up to finishing the job and/or is getting
satisfaction from it. It might just clear the air all around, expose
issues, etc.

- Get him and his dad over one w/e to motor through the planning and
execution of the skirting (and a couple of beers)?

- Ask him to put fitted (Sharps style) bedroom furniture in. Sounds
like he would make a good job of that, and all would have a happy ending
to mask any earlier troubles.

Lot's of mutually incompatiable thoughs in the above. As you know all
involved better you'll hopefully be able to pick at least one useful
thing from it.

HTH
IanC

Thanks very much for that Ian - a good reply and lots of food for thought
there.

Before asking him to do the job I jokingly asked his dad "Is your lad a good
joiner? Would you let him loose in your house?" He laughed and invited me
round for a beer that night to see the kitchen and wardrobes that his lad
had recently finished fitting for him.

When I saw his work I was well impressed and on the strength of that, I
asked him if he was interested in doing our job - a victorian mid-terraced
that's being completely renovated (rewire, replumb, new bathroom, CH etc).
"No problem", he said, "I'll do whatever you want for £10/hour".

The skirting looks so odd it's hard to believe there hasn't been some
misunderstanding. When you said 'we'd like this wall to look like that
one' has he got the idea that thinks he's been asked to make a boxed
section all around?

I thought the phrase "replace skirting as and where necessary" was fairly
self-explanatory. By the time he started the job the old pipes and pipe box
in the back bedroom had been ripped out so he was looking at three
"normally" skirted walls (with 3" skirting) and one wall with nothing on
that needed matching to the others, so I haven't got a clue as to how he
could think he was asked to make a boxed section all round.

I now think that you're correct in saying that kitchen fitting is different
from other areas of joinery/carpentry and I can only assume that the local
(big) building firm have him fitting kitchens all day long.

Anyway, thanks again for your comments Ian (and everyone else, of course)

John.