[YAPH]

Had a Biasi* (ptui!) with a failed pump today - bearings completely shot.
The pump was a WILO but the official Biasi spare is c.£135 + VAT and not
available locally. Looked like a bog standard pump head but nobody does
the bog standard pumps anymore - they're all SmartPumps. Which may or may
not be mechanically interchangeable but the electronics housing on the
side of the all-singing version probably wouldn't have fitted in the
space available in the boiler (besides it would have been such a gross
bodge I wouldn't have wanted to put my name to it!).

Seems they've stopped making the standard pumps (except, presumably, as
boiler spares). So it might be useful to put aside a couple of them if I
ever find any - any clues out there? And looking ahead to when standard
efficiency pumps in general are phased out (real soon now, though I don't
know offhand exactly when) I think I should stockpile some standard
Grundfos heads!


* some condensing model with 2ndary HE, so can't have been that old.

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Pessimists are never disappointed

[geoff]

In message , YAPH
writes
Had a Biasi* (ptui!) with a failed pump today -


Bog standard Wilo pump?

I've just removed one from the new house and replaced it with a 15/50

You're welcome to the old one, its in working order

I'll send it on monday if I remember


--
geoff

[YAPH]

On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 23:13:31 +0100, geoff wrote:

I'll send it on monday if I remember

It's OK, boiler's running now and I suggested to punter he gets new one
ordered up from ****ty Plumbing. Just annoying not to be able to find
vanilla Wilos any more. I'd have stocked up if I'd known they were going
to disappear.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down

[Tabby]

On Jun 4, 12:55*pm, YAPH wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 23:13:31 +0100, geoff wrote:
I'll send it on monday if I remember

It's OK, boiler's running now and I suggested to punter he gets new one
ordered up from ****ty Plumbing. Just annoying not to be able to find
vanilla Wilos any more. I'd have stocked up if I'd known they were going
to disappear.


I dont have a smartpump to get the figures from, so these figures are
likely inaccurate...


Cold winter day: 33% run time
summer: almost no use for 4months
8 months 0-33%, ave 16.6% of time - over the whole yr, 11% of the
time

plain pump:
so a 30w non-electronic pump will use about £3.30 per yr in leccy, £33
per decade, £83 per 25 year CH system life

TCO per 25 yrs is thus £25+£83 = £108


smartpump:
vague guess halved energy use - £42 per 25yr life
TCO thus £126+42 = £168

Comments welcome!


NT

[geoff]

In message
,
Tabby writes
On Jun 4, 12:55*pm, YAPH wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 23:13:31 +0100, geoff wrote:
I'll send it on monday if I remember

It's OK, boiler's running now and I suggested to punter he gets new one
ordered up from ****ty Plumbing. Just annoying not to be able to find
vanilla Wilos any more. I'd have stocked up if I'd known they were going
to disappear.


I dont have a smartpump to get the figures from, so these figures are
likely inaccurate...


Comments welcome!

Give it a little kick every so often to stop it seizing up because of
scaling

its a common problem and even the potterton Suprima gives the pump a
short burst every day

--
geoff

[Tim Lamb[_2_]]

In message
,
Tabby writes
On Jun 4, 12:55*pm, YAPH wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 23:13:31 +0100, geoff wrote:
I'll send it on monday if I remember

It's OK, boiler's running now and I suggested to punter he gets new one
ordered up from ****ty Plumbing. Just annoying not to be able to find
vanilla Wilos any more. I'd have stocked up if I'd known they were going
to disappear.


I dont have a smartpump to get the figures from, so these figures are
likely inaccurate...


Cold winter day: 33% run time
summer: almost no use for 4months
8 months 0-33%, ave 16.6% of time - over the whole yr, 11% of the
time

plain pump:
so a 30w non-electronic pump will use about £3.30 per yr in leccy, £33
per decade, £83 per 25 year CH system life

TCO per 25 yrs is thus £25+£83 = £108


smartpump:
vague guess halved energy use - £42 per 25yr life
TCO thus £126+42 = £168

Comments welcome!

er... There are other attributes:-)

System noise for one. Rad stats are clever things but they don't have
any means of controlling fixed pump flow.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

[YAPH]

On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 16:09:15 -0700, Tabby wrote:

plain pump:
so a 30w non-electronic pump will use about £3.30 per yr in leccy, £33
per decade, £83 per 25 year CH system life

Screwfix Flomasta me-too B-rated pump costs £40, uses 52W on setting III,
40W on setting II - let's assume we use this setting

TCO per 25 yrs is thus £25+£83 = £108

£40 + £110 = £150

smartpump:
vague guess halved energy use - £42 per 25yr life TCO thus £126+42 =
£168

Wilo A-rated smartpump is £65 at Screwfix so £65 + £55 (same guess: half
the consumption) = £120


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

This sig intentionally left blank

[Tabby]

On Jun 5, 4:03*pm, YAPH wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 16:09:15 -0700, Tabby wrote:
plain pump:
so a 30w non-electronic pump will use about £3.30 per yr in leccy, £33
per decade, £83 per 25 year CH system life

Screwfix Flomasta me-too B-rated pump costs £40, uses 52W on setting III,
40W on setting II - let's assume we use this setting

TCO per 25 yrs is thus £25+£83 = £108

£40 + £110 = £150

smartpump:
vague guess halved energy use - £42 per 25yr life TCO thus £126+42 =
£168

Wilo A-rated smartpump is £65 at Screwfix so £65 + £55 (same guess: half
the consumption) = £120

Yes, reading a bit more I saw they were around £65. But also that
energy saving is *upto* 50%, and since one must inevitably use just as
much energy to pump when the boiler is at max output, IRL the energy
saving is 0-50%, which we could guesstimate as 25% average save.

Pasting previous revised calcs...

plain pump:
so a 30w non-electronic pump will use about £3.30 per yr in leccy, £33
per decade, £83 per 25 year CH system life

TCO per 25 yrs is thus £25+£83 = £108


smart pump:
Energy saving 0-50%, so approx average 25% saving
£83 thus becomes £62 per 25yr life
TCO thus £65+62 = £127


However the revelation the 40 or 52w figure will change that again.
OK, I'll revise the above...

plain pump:
so a 40w non-electronic pump will use about £4.40 per yr in leccy, £44
per decade, £110 per 25 year CH system life

TCO per 25 yrs is thus £40+£110 = £150


smart pump:
Energy saving 0-50%, so approx average 25% saving
£110 thus becomes £82 per 25yr life
TCO thus £65+82 = £147

So no saving, but more upfront cost.


NT

[Steve Walker[_3_]]

On 05/06/2011 00:09, Tabby wrote:
On Jun 4, 12:55 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 23:13:31 +0100, geoff wrote:
I'll send it on monday if I remember

It's OK, boiler's running now and I suggested to punter he gets new one
ordered up from ****ty Plumbing. Just annoying not to be able to find
vanilla Wilos any more. I'd have stocked up if I'd known they were going
to disappear.


I dont have a smartpump to get the figures from, so these figures are
likely inaccurate...


Cold winter day: 33% run time
summer: almost no use for 4months
8 months 0-33%, ave 16.6% of time - over the whole yr, 11% of the
time

plain pump:
so a 30w non-electronic pump will use about £3.30 per yr in leccy, £33
per decade, £83 per 25 year CH system life

TCO per 25 yrs is thus £25+£83 = £108


smartpump:
vague guess halved energy use - £42 per 25yr life
TCO thus £126+42 = £168

Comments welcome!

You've missed that the inefficiency produces waste heat, which is of
course not wasted at all, because you wouldn't be running the pump if
you didn't want heat!

SteveW

[YAPH]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:51:13 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

You've missed that the inefficiency produces waste heat, which is of
course not wasted at all, because you wouldn't be running the pump if
you didn't want heat!

Depends when and where the heat is generated: in summer on a system with
stored hot water the heat generated by the pump is liable to be wasted,
and in winter it may be wasted if the pump is somewhere that's warm
enough anyway.

Although it's piddling amounts we're talking about he less than a
single half-decent lightbulb, and regulating to mandate the more
efficient pumps seems to be a case of straining after gnats.

WILO's (presumed) withdrawal of their standard-efficiency pumps means
anyone with a Biasi with a failed pump is faced with paying more and
waiting longer for a new pump head from Biasi rather than a cheaper
generic WILO one. Which probably serves them right for buying cheap crap
from B&Q anyway. :-)


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Religion is like a penis. It is fine to have one. It's ok to be proud of
it. Just don't wave it around in public or try to jam it down my child's
throat.