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James
 
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Default Confused 120v & 240v Wiring - Please Help

Hi, I'm looking for some help with a wiring problem I have encountered
in the house we've just bought. I should add that I'm a reasonably
competent electrician, yet this one has me puzzled!!

We have a lounge ceiling light with rose, with a standard 1 way switch
attached. When I turn on the switch, the light works! Inside the rose
the connections appear to standard. LNE in, LNE Loop through, the
switch cable which has been wired with Twin & E so that the switch box
is earthed, and obviously a LNE to the actual light fitting.

At the lIve terminal in the switch there is another L going off to god
only knows where, this live comes from a separate Twin and Earth cable
of which the N has just been cut short, and the E goes to the earthing
point.

NOW for the fun bit.

We have an outside light which is switched by a fused switch next to
the front door. This has a Twin and Earth coming in, with a Twin and
Earth going to the fixture- no loop through, this seems to just be a
spur off the dowstairs lighting ring.

When the LOUNGE SWITCH is ON, there is 0v going to the OUTDOOR LIGHT
SWITCH.
When the LOUNGE SWITCH is OFF and the OUTDOOR SWITCH is OFF there is
240v at the OUTDOOR LIGHT SWITCH.

When the LOUNGE SWITCH is OFF and the OUTDOOR SWITCH is ON, there is
120v at the OUTDOOR SWITCH, and 120v at the LOUNGE LIGHT & SWITCH!!!!!
i.e both bulbs are at half power, even though the lounge switch is
OFF

Please help. I've given up trying to draw parallel and serial circuits
because I can't work out how the 1 way switch in the lounge can in
effect turn off or on the power in the Outdoor switch?

Many thanks for any suggestions.


James
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BigWallop
 
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Default Confused 120v & 240v Wiring - Please Help


"James" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I'm looking for some help with a wiring problem I have encountered
in the house we've just bought. I should add that I'm a reasonably
competent electrician, yet this one has me puzzled!!

We have a lounge ceiling light with rose, with a standard 1 way switch
attached. When I turn on the switch, the light works! Inside the rose
the connections appear to standard. LNE in, LNE Loop through, the
switch cable which has been wired with Twin & E so that the switch box
is earthed, and obviously a LNE to the actual light fitting.

At the lIve terminal in the switch there is another L going off to god
only knows where, this live comes from a separate Twin and Earth cable
of which the N has just been cut short, and the E goes to the earthing
point.

NOW for the fun bit.

We have an outside light which is switched by a fused switch next to
the front door. This has a Twin and Earth coming in, with a Twin and
Earth going to the fixture- no loop through, this seems to just be a
spur off the dowstairs lighting ring.

When the LOUNGE SWITCH is ON, there is 0v going to the OUTDOOR LIGHT
SWITCH.
When the LOUNGE SWITCH is OFF and the OUTDOOR SWITCH is OFF there is
240v at the OUTDOOR LIGHT SWITCH.

When the LOUNGE SWITCH is OFF and the OUTDOOR SWITCH is ON, there is
120v at the OUTDOOR SWITCH, and 120v at the LOUNGE LIGHT & SWITCH!!!!!
i.e both bulbs are at half power, even though the lounge switch is
OFF

Please help. I've given up trying to draw parallel and serial circuits
because I can't work out how the 1 way switch in the lounge can in
effect turn off or on the power in the Outdoor switch?

Many thanks for any suggestions.


James


It sounds as though the outside light has been tapped off the live side of
the lounge circuit but not been issued with a neutral connection and is more
than likely running to earth through the filament of the lamp in the outside
light. The 120 volts is being back fed through either the earth or the
live.

Try taking the lamp out of the outside light fitting and doing your voltage
test again. If it's dead, then the outside light is definitely wired wrong.

If the outside light fitting is wired from the lighting circuit, then it
won't really need a fused switch because it is already being protected by
the lighting breaker in the consumer unit (fuse box).


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Lee Blaver
 
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Default Confused 120v & 240v Wiring - Please Help

BigWallop wrote:

snip

When the LOUNGE SWITCH is OFF and the OUTDOOR SWITCH is ON, there is
120v at the OUTDOOR SWITCH, and 120v at the LOUNGE LIGHT & SWITCH!!!!!
i.e both bulbs are at half power, even though the lounge switch is
OFF



It sounds as though the outside light has been tapped off the live side of
the lounge circuit but not been issued with a neutral connection and is more
than likely running to earth through the filament of the lamp in the outside
light. The 120 volts is being back fed through either the earth or the
live.


I've actually seen this done more than once, and the reason behind it
being that it is a reminder that the outside light is still on when the
lounge light is turned off to go to bed!!

I kid not, and yes the people involved were misers

Lee


--
To reply use lee.blaver and ntlworld.com

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ARWadsworth
 
Posts: n/a
Default Confused 120v & 240v Wiring - Please Help


"James" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I'm looking for some help with a wiring problem I have encountered
in the house we've just bought. I should add that I'm a reasonably
competent electrician, yet this one has me puzzled!!

We have a lounge ceiling light with rose, with a standard 1 way switch
attached. When I turn on the switch, the light works! Inside the rose
the connections appear to standard. LNE in, LNE Loop through, the
switch cable which has been wired with Twin & E so that the switch box
is earthed, and obviously a LNE to the actual light fitting.

At the lIve terminal in the switch there is another L going off to god
only knows where, this live comes from a separate Twin and Earth cable
of which the N has just been cut short, and the E goes to the earthing
point.

NOW for the fun bit.

We have an outside light which is switched by a fused switch next to
the front door. This has a Twin and Earth coming in, with a Twin and
Earth going to the fixture- no loop through, this seems to just be a
spur off the dowstairs lighting ring.

When the LOUNGE SWITCH is ON, there is 0v going to the OUTDOOR LIGHT
SWITCH.
When the LOUNGE SWITCH is OFF and the OUTDOOR SWITCH is OFF there is
240v at the OUTDOOR LIGHT SWITCH.

When the LOUNGE SWITCH is OFF and the OUTDOOR SWITCH is ON, there is
120v at the OUTDOOR SWITCH, and 120v at the LOUNGE LIGHT & SWITCH!!!!!
i.e both bulbs are at half power, even though the lounge switch is
OFF

Please help. I've given up trying to draw parallel and serial circuits
because I can't work out how the 1 way switch in the lounge can in
effect turn off or on the power in the Outdoor switch?

Many thanks for any suggestions.


James


You may have your lounge light wiring set up incorrectly. It is possible
that it is switching the neutral not the live and your outside light is
trying to take a permanent live from the lounge lightswitch. There will not
actually be a permanent live at the switch if this is the case. Try a
voltage tester at both sides of the lounge bulb with the lounge switch
turned off. If it shows 240v at both sides when turned off this may be your
problem. In fact if it shows 240v at either side when turned off you have a
problem.
Try this and if it shows 240 at the lounge bulb when it is turned off
someone here give you more info.

--
Adam




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James
 
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Default Confused 120v & 240v Wiring - Please Help

Lee Blaver wrote in message ...
BigWallop wrote:

snip

When the LOUNGE SWITCH is OFF and the OUTDOOR SWITCH is ON, there is
120v at the OUTDOOR SWITCH, and 120v at the LOUNGE LIGHT & SWITCH!!!!!
i.e both bulbs are at half power, even though the lounge switch is
OFF



It sounds as though the outside light has been tapped off the live side of
the lounge circuit but not been issued with a neutral connection and is more
than likely running to earth through the filament of the lamp in the outside
light. The 120 volts is being back fed through either the earth or the
live.


I've actually seen this done more than once, and the reason behind it
being that it is a reminder that the outside light is still on when the
lounge light is turned off to go to bed!!

I kid not, and yes the people involved were misers

Lee



Thank you for help so far guys, it's dark here now, so I'll have
another look at the job next weekend. Will post results. I found out
where that spare live from the lounge switch goes though! To the
inside hall light!! Obvious really !!!
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