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Default Mortar and dry warm air

I've just built a little dwarf wall in the eaves of my dormer bungalow
(we're only talking about a 4 foot right-angled triangle), to close
off a space behind a room. After three days the mortar doesn't look
like it's gone off properly, but is sandy and crumbly. Central heating
pipes run through this space and under the wall, and I'm thinking
that the warm, dry air has caused the mortar to dry out too quickly
and prevented it going off properly. I'm now considering removing the
wall and rebuilding it. I'd turn the heating off during and
afterwards, and possibly give the occasional mist of water to keep
things wet for a bit.

My question is: how long ought I to plan to leave the heating off, to
be certain I've given the mortar a chance to go off? A day? Two days?
Longer? I know I can wait and see, but in the interests of domestic
harmony I need to plan this against the weather forecast ;-)


Regards
Richard
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Default Mortar and dry warm air

geraldthehamster wrote:
I've just built a little dwarf wall in the eaves of my dormer bungalow
(we're only talking about a 4 foot right-angled triangle), to close
off a space behind a room. After three days the mortar doesn't look
like it's gone off properly, but is sandy and crumbly. Central heating
pipes run through this space and under the wall, and I'm thinking
that the warm, dry air has caused the mortar to dry out too quickly
and prevented it going off properly. I'm now considering removing the
wall and rebuilding it. I'd turn the heating off during and
afterwards, and possibly give the occasional mist of water to keep
things wet for a bit.

My question is: how long ought I to plan to leave the heating off, to
be certain I've given the mortar a chance to go off? A day? Two days?
Longer? I know I can wait and see, but in the interests of domestic
harmony I need to plan this against the weather forecast ;-)


Regards
Richard


Maybe the bricks are too porous. Try a bit of pva in the mortar
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Default Mortar and dry warm air

geraldthehamster wrote:
I've just built a little dwarf wall in the eaves of my dormer bungalow
(we're only talking about a 4 foot right-angled triangle), to close
off a space behind a room. After three days the mortar doesn't look
like it's gone off properly, but is sandy and crumbly. Central heating
pipes run through this space and under the wall, and I'm thinking
that the warm, dry air has caused the mortar to dry out too quickly
and prevented it going off properly. I'm now considering removing the
wall and rebuilding it. I'd turn the heating off during and
afterwards, and possibly give the occasional mist of water to keep
things wet for a bit.

My question is: how long ought I to plan to leave the heating off, to
be certain I've given the mortar a chance to go off? A day? Two days?
Longer? I know I can wait and see, but in the interests of domestic
harmony I need to plan this against the weather forecast ;-)


Regards
Richard


You don't ned to take down the wall, the mortar is just awaiting some water
to complete the setting process - I've repointed walls and such likes and
the sun has caused this same drying out - the mortar remains sandy until
it's been wetted down a few times, then it sets as normal.

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008


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Default Mortar and dry warm air

In article ,
"Phil L" writes:
geraldthehamster wrote:
I've just built a little dwarf wall in the eaves of my dormer bungalow
(we're only talking about a 4 foot right-angled triangle), to close
off a space behind a room. After three days the mortar doesn't look
like it's gone off properly, but is sandy and crumbly. Central heating
pipes run through this space and under the wall, and I'm thinking
that the warm, dry air has caused the mortar to dry out too quickly
and prevented it going off properly. I'm now considering removing the
wall and rebuilding it. I'd turn the heating off during and
afterwards, and possibly give the occasional mist of water to keep
things wet for a bit.

My question is: how long ought I to plan to leave the heating off, to
be certain I've given the mortar a chance to go off? A day? Two days?
Longer? I know I can wait and see, but in the interests of domestic
harmony I need to plan this against the weather forecast ;-)


You don't ned to take down the wall, the mortar is just awaiting some water
to complete the setting process - I've repointed walls and such likes and
the sun has caused this same drying out - the mortar remains sandy until
it's been wetted down a few times, then it sets as normal.


Also, mortar takes about 6 weeks to fully set.
For the first couple of weeks, you'll easily
brush sand off the surface.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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Default Mortar and dry warm air

geraldthehamster wrote:
I've just built a little dwarf wall in the eaves of my dormer bungalow
(we're only talking about a 4 foot right-angled triangle), to close
off a space behind a room. After three days the mortar doesn't look
like it's gone off properly, but is sandy and crumbly. Central heating
pipes run through this space and under the wall, and I'm thinking
that the warm, dry air has caused the mortar to dry out too quickly
and prevented it going off properly. I'm now considering removing the
wall and rebuilding it. I'd turn the heating off during and
afterwards, and possibly give the occasional mist of water to keep
things wet for a bit.

My question is: how long ought I to plan to leave the heating off, to
be certain I've given the mortar a chance to go off? A day? Two days?
Longer? I know I can wait and see, but in the interests of domestic
harmony I need to plan this against the weather forecast ;-)


Regards
Richard


Just spray with water several times, no need to turn heat off.


NT


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Default Mortar and dry warm air

On Feb 25, 7:53*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * "Phil L" writes:





geraldthehamster wrote:
I've just built a little dwarf wall in the eaves of my dormer bungalow
(we're only talking about a 4 foot right-angled triangle), to close
off a space behind a room. After three days the mortar doesn't look
like it's gone off properly, but is sandy and crumbly. Central heating
pipes run through *this space and under the wall, and I'm thinking
that the warm, dry air has caused the mortar to dry out too quickly
and prevented it going off properly. I'm now considering removing the
wall and rebuilding it. I'd turn the heating off during and
afterwards, and possibly give the occasional mist of water to keep
things wet for a bit.


My question is: how long ought I to plan to leave the heating off, to
be certain I've given the mortar a chance to go off? A day? Two days?
Longer? I know I can wait and see, but in the interests of domestic
harmony I need to plan this against the weather forecast ;-)


You don't ned to take down the wall, the mortar is just awaiting some water
to complete the setting process - I've repointed walls and such likes and
the sun has caused this same drying out - the mortar remains sandy until
it's been wetted down a few times, then it sets as normal.


Also, mortar takes about 6 weeks to fully set.
For the first couple of weeks, you'll easily
brush sand off the surface.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


It wasn't just sand coming off the surface - a knife could be pushed
right into the joints. The bricks could be removed from the wall by
hand. Anyway, I've rebuil the wall now, and turned the heating off at
least for tonight. Given these facts, would anyone like to suggest how
long I ought to leave it off now, to give the mortar the greatest
chance? It's all quite damp at the moment as I wetted everything down;
it's my experience that if it's wet for longer it will set more
slowly, but harder - there must be a point though when the chemical
reaction becomes irreversible?

Cheers
Richard
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Default Mortar and dry warm air

geraldthehamster wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:53*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * "Phil L" writes:
geraldthehamster wrote:


I've just built a little dwarf wall in the eaves of my dormer bungalow
(we're only talking about a 4 foot right-angled triangle), to close
off a space behind a room. After three days the mortar doesn't look
like it's gone off properly, but is sandy and crumbly. Central heating
pipes run through *this space and under the wall, and I'm thinking
that the warm, dry air has caused the mortar to dry out too quickly
and prevented it going off properly. I'm now considering removing the
wall and rebuilding it. I'd turn the heating off during and
afterwards, and possibly give the occasional mist of water to keep
things wet for a bit.


My question is: how long ought I to plan to leave the heating off, to
be certain I've given the mortar a chance to go off? A day? Two days?
Longer? I know I can wait and see, but in the interests of domestic
harmony I need to plan this against the weather forecast ;-)


You don't ned to take down the wall, the mortar is just awaiting some water
to complete the setting process - I've repointed walls and such likes and
the sun has caused this same drying out - the mortar remains sandy until
it's been wetted down a few times, then it sets as normal.


Also, mortar takes about 6 weeks to fully set.
For the first couple of weeks, you'll easily
brush sand off the surface.


It wasn't just sand coming off the surface - a knife could be pushed
right into the joints. The bricks could be removed from the wall by
hand.


thats normal

Anyway, I've rebuil the wall now, and turned the heating off at
least for tonight. Given these facts, would anyone like to suggest how
long I ought to leave it off now, to give the mortar the greatest
chance?


people have already said

It's all quite damp at the moment as I wetted everything down;
it's my experience that if it's wet for longer it will set more
slowly, but harder - there must be a point though when the chemical
reaction becomes irreversible?

Cheers
Richard


its always irreversible with cement, all the way thru the setting and
curing processes.


NT
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Default Mortar and dry warm air

On 25 Feb, 22:15, geraldthehamster wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:53*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:



In article ,
* * * * "Phil L" writes:


geraldthehamster wrote:
I've just built a little dwarf wall in the eaves of my dormer bungalow
(we're only talking about a 4 foot right-angled triangle), to close
off a space behind a room. After three days the mortar doesn't look
like it's gone off properly, but is sandy and crumbly. Central heating
pipes run through *this space and under the wall, and I'm thinking
that the warm, dry air has caused the mortar to dry out too quickly
and prevented it going off properly. I'm now considering removing the
wall and rebuilding it. I'd turn the heating off during and
afterwards, and possibly give the occasional mist of water to keep
things wet for a bit.


My question is: how long ought I to plan to leave the heating off, to
be certain I've given the mortar a chance to go off? A day? Two days?
Longer? I know I can wait and see, but in the interests of domestic
harmony I need to plan this against the weather forecast ;-)


You don't ned to take down the wall, the mortar is just awaiting some water
to complete the setting process - I've repointed walls and such likes and
the sun has caused this same drying out - the mortar remains sandy until
it's been wetted down a few times, then it sets as normal.


Also, mortar takes about 6 weeks to fully set.
For the first couple of weeks, you'll easily
brush sand off the surface.


--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't just sand coming off the surface - a knife could be pushed
right into the joints. The bricks could be removed from the wall by
hand. Anyway, I've rebuil the wall now, and turned the heating off at
least for tonight. Given these facts, would anyone like to suggest how
long I ought to leave it off now, to give the mortar the greatest
chance? It's all quite damp at the moment as I wetted everything down;
it's my experience that if it's wet for longer it will set more
slowly, but harder - there must be a point though when the chemical
reaction becomes irreversible?

Cheers
Richard


Just been building walls last couple of days. 6 to 1 mix.
Next day bricks are firmly "stuck", mortar getting hard, but could
push a knife in if you tried.
But I wouldn't give the bricks a yank for a week or so. You get that
urge to "go on, push it, see how strong it is" !
By the way, if your loft is now cold, note that mortar takes longer in
the cold ;-)
Simon.
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wrote:
On 25 Feb, 22:15, geraldthehamster wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:53 pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:



In article ,
"Phil L" writes:
geraldthehamster wrote:
I've just built a little dwarf wall in the eaves of my dormer bungalow
(we're only talking about a 4 foot right-angled triangle), to close
off a space behind a room. After three days the mortar doesn't look
like it's gone off properly, but is sandy and crumbly. Central heating
pipes run through this space and under the wall, and I'm thinking
that the warm, dry air has caused the mortar to dry out too quickly
and prevented it going off properly. I'm now considering removing the
wall and rebuilding it. I'd turn the heating off during and
afterwards, and possibly give the occasional mist of water to keep
things wet for a bit.
My question is: how long ought I to plan to leave the heating off, to
be certain I've given the mortar a chance to go off? A day? Two days?
Longer? I know I can wait and see, but in the interests of domestic
harmony I need to plan this against the weather forecast ;-)
You don't ned to take down the wall, the mortar is just awaiting some water
to complete the setting process - I've repointed walls and such likes and
the sun has caused this same drying out - the mortar remains sandy until
it's been wetted down a few times, then it sets as normal.
Also, mortar takes about 6 weeks to fully set.
For the first couple of weeks, you'll easily
brush sand off the surface.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

It wasn't just sand coming off the surface - a knife could be pushed
right into the joints. The bricks could be removed from the wall by
hand. Anyway, I've rebuil the wall now, and turned the heating off at
least for tonight. Given these facts, would anyone like to suggest how
long I ought to leave it off now, to give the mortar the greatest
chance? It's all quite damp at the moment as I wetted everything down;
it's my experience that if it's wet for longer it will set more
slowly, but harder - there must be a point though when the chemical
reaction becomes irreversible?

Cheers
Richard


Just been building walls last couple of days. 6 to 1 mix.
Next day bricks are firmly "stuck", mortar getting hard, but could
push a knife in if you tried.
But I wouldn't give the bricks a yank for a week or so. You get that
urge to "go on, push it, see how strong it is" !
By the way, if your loft is now cold, note that mortar takes longer in
the cold ;-)
Simon.


IME, if you can easily pull the brick upwards a couple of hours after
laying, you haven't got a proper bond. It's all about the right
consistency of mortar, suction, and tapping the thing to get it level
rather than actually moving it. I'm a useless bricklayer but my joints
don't usually fail
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Default Mortar and dry warm air

Well, I examined my second attempt this morning, and already the
mortar was much harder than it has been after three or four days on
the previous lot. As I made a point of ensuring the bricks were damp,
I'll have had less suction as well, and a better bond, which as
someone pointed out may also have been part of the problem.

I don't want to give the impression that this brickwork is merely
"near" some heating pipes. It forms one side of a mainly enclosed void
about 6 by 4 foot in the eaves, in which the main 22mm copper pipes
run. Even with insulation on the pipes, it gets very hot and dry in
there. It would have been more like laying some bricks, then using a
hairdryer on them.

I'll inspect it again tonight, give another misting with water and put
the heating back on.

Cheers
richard
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