I've been going through severe problems with my Heatline Compact S30
combi-boiler and recently had an engineer out to it under warranty. He
noted that the TRV's the instaler had fitted were one-directional, said
this would cause knocking and stress on the boiler and advised that
they be changed to bi-directional. He also advised a room-stat which
the installer also neglected.

I have drained the system and bought new Mistral bi-directional TRV's
(with self seal tail). Here's where I am confused. The valve section
allows the tail to move freely and does not appear to seal at all. All
that is in the boxes are a two-way valve, two brass o-rings, two nuts
and the sliding tail. I bought from PlumbBase, but I found the same
item on ebay just now and it appears to have an extra brass part that
did not come with the units I purchased.
Am I missing parts from these or am I failing to realise how they work?

Also, the previous fitting had a female coupling on the bottom and the
copper pipes seem to be attatched to what I presumed was the old copper
o-rings! Unless I can get these off, the old fitting nut wont come off,
and I cannot fit the new parts anyway. Any help would be gratefully
appreciated. Thank you in advance.

In article .com,
Don wrote:
I've been going through severe problems with my Heatline Compact S30
combi-boiler and recently had an engineer out to it under warranty. He
noted that the TRV's the instaler had fitted were one-directional, said
this would cause knocking and stress on the boiler and advised that
they be changed to bi-directional. He also advised a room-stat which
the installer also neglected.

Nothing wrong with directional TVRs provided they are fitted correctly.
Fit them the wrong way round and they may be noisy in operation.

If you have a room stat there mustn't be TVRs in that room.

--
*A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks Dave. Unfortunately the directional TVR's were not fitted
correctly and caused prolonged banging. The Bar-Gauge on the boiler
itself would go crazy as the needle flipped.
I will be installing a room stat asap. The new TVR's are a necessary
measure right now to get Heatline to send an engineer again.
Heatline say that they will not send out an engineer until the
installation fault is made good. I've been unable to contact the
original installer, and his Corgi number is now registered elsewhere in
the country.
If you copy/paste the following urls and replace hxxp with http you
will see pictures of my problem at my photobucket account. I believe
this is within the rules as I am not including any HTML in my post.

hxxp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/neil_jung/NEWTRV.jpg
hxxp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/neil_jung/NEWTRVEXPLODEDVIEW.jpg
hxxp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/neil_jung/OLDTRV.jpg
hxxp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/neil_jung/StuckFittingOnPipe.jpg

In message .com, Don
writes
If you copy/paste the following urls and replace hxxp with http you
will see pictures of my problem at my photobucket account. I believe
this is within the rules as I am not including any HTML in my post.

hxxp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/neil_jung/NEWTRV.jpg
hxxp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/neil_jung/NEWTRVEXPLODEDVIEW.jpg
hxxp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/neil_jung/OLDTRV.jpg
hxxp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/neil_jung/StuckFittingOnPipe.jpg

It would have been easier to leave the http untouched. That isn't html
and means most readers will spot it as a link and saved fiddling :-)

Anyway, what you have called brass 'O' rings are referred to as
'olives'. I've not used these but I assume that you use one nut and
olive to attached the valve body to the tail. Best way is probably to
fit the tail to the radiator slide on the nut and olive, then do up the
nut. Once done up it will hold tight, presumably this is to allow for
some adjustment.

Re the olive stuck on the pipe, this is pretty common. I have got away
with leaving the olive on a pipe (with the nut) and then connecting it
to a new fitting - but this does risk the joint leaking as the old olive
may not seal correctly (an further addition to the bodge is top put a
few wraps on PTFE tape around the olive first.

The are various ways to try and get it off, gripping it with apir of
pliers or molegrips (mind the pipe it is easy to squash it) and
twisting, using something like a junior hacksaw or a dremel to
carefully mostly cut the olive - try not to nick the pipe, then use
screwdriver etc. to pop it off. Put a adustable spanner underneath the
nut at tap with a hammer to knock it off, etc.if there is enough slack
in the pipe you can just cut the end of the pipe off (get a proper
little pipe cutter for a neat cut) .

There have been threads on this try searching back on Google Groups.

When doing up the joints with olives, don't over do it. once you feel
the joint start to 'tighten up - by hand preferably, just give an extra
1/8 - 1/4 quarter turn with the spanner . If it still leaks a bit later
you can just give it a fuurther little tweak.
--
Chris French

"Don" wrote in message
oups.com...
snipped
To ensure identities are made clear and refering to my previous posts to
this NG under the name of "Don", I am changing my name as follows.
Cheers
Donwill

In article .com,
Don wrote:
I have drained the system and bought new Mistral bi-directional TRV's
(with self seal tail). Here's where I am confused. The valve section
allows the tail to move freely and does not appear to seal at all. All
that is in the boxes are a two-way valve, two brass o-rings, two nuts
and the sliding tail. I bought from PlumbBase, but I found the same
item on ebay just now and it appears to have an extra brass part that
did not come with the units I purchased.
Am I missing parts from these or am I failing to realise how they work?

Right. If you refer to:-

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...PLODEDVIEW.jpg

the chrome tube with the thread on it screws into the rad. Use PTFE tape
on the threads - and you'll likely need a 'special' tool to tighten it.
There's usually a hex on the inside for this purpose and the hex key can
be bought from a PM, etc. Don't use grips on the outside as any damage
here may prevent a seal. Now the nut shown next to the tube, then the
brass olive, then the valve. When you tighten the nut to the TRV, the
brass olive crimps onto the tube to make a seal. It's called a compression
joint and is common in plumbing.

Also, the previous fitting had a female coupling on the bottom and the
copper pipes seem to be attatched to what I presumed was the old copper
o-rings!

If the old unit was identical you could have re-used that part - but as
you've found some are different fittings entirely. The type you have were
common some years ago and IIRC sold by HomeBase.

Unless I can get these off, the old fitting nut wont come off,
and I cannot fit the new parts anyway. Any help would be gratefully
appreciated. Thank you in advance.

What you need to do is saw a groove into the brass olive 'in line' with
the pipe, ie across the side of the olive - but not all the way through,
to avoid damage to the pipe. Then with a screwdriver twist the slot. The
olive should then snap off. Just keep your fingers crossed that the pipe
is long enough for the new style of TRV, as again this isn't standard
between makes.

Clean the pipe with wire wool - again from a PM etc - until it gleams. Put
the nut on first then the new olive. Make sure the pipe goes fully into
the valve - there is a shoulder to set the right depth in the valve.

If it's too long it will need cutting to suit - use a proper pipe cutter
again from a PM. If it's too short it will have to be extended. If the
latter is the case, post again for advice on how.

--
*A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Also, the previous fitting had a female coupling on the bottom and the
copper pipes seem to be attatched to what I presumed was the old copper
o-rings! Unless I can get these off, the old fitting nut wont come off,
and I cannot fit the new parts anyway.

Often you can use the old olive and nut on the new fitting.

If not, removing the old olive can be difficult. You can get special olive
removers, or you can hacksaw a slot on the olive and try to ping it off with
a flat blade screwdriver in the slot. However, if you nick the pipe itself
with the hacksaw, it might never seal, so you must be careful.

Christian.

In article ,
Christian McArdle wrote:
copper pipes seem to be attatched to what I presumed was the old copper
o-rings! Unless I can get these off, the old fitting nut wont come off,
and I cannot fit the new parts anyway.

Often you can use the old olive and nut on the new fitting.

If you look at the last pic, it's not an ordinary olive but one which fits
across the top of the pipe. The 'nut' is actually a male bush so there's a
female thread in the valve rather than the common male type.

I had these types (IIRC from Homebase) before changing to decent ones.

--
*Of course I'm against sin; I'm against anything that I'm too old to enjoy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks everyone who took the time to share their knowledge. I managed
to get the old olive off with the hacksaw groove/screwdriver twist
technique. I sussed out how the compression joints worked and I almost
had the first valve fitted! Unfortunately the tail is too long by about
5mill! I'm having trouble fitting the valves, even if everything was
tightened the bottom pipe is too far from the valve to slot in. Is
there a way to do this without removing the rads from the walls and
bending the pipe somehow? Heres a pic showing the closest the connector
can get to the pipe. There's less than 3 inches of copper pipe to work
with from the join below (that feeds to the rad on the other side of
the wall).

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ung/TRV009.jpg

Could it be I should have been sold this model instead? It looks more
like the ones I had fitted and took into PlumBase to show them.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...11_15mm1-2.jpg

I can get hold of an angle-grinder to trim the tails but I'm brobably
better served getting fully compatable fittings. Looking around there
seem to be several models that might fit the bill. I was sold the
Mistral M10, but I think it should have been the M11 (picture linked
above). Unfortunately Plumbase where I purchased the M10's does not
appear to stock them.

In article .com,
Don wrote:
Thanks everyone who took the time to share their knowledge. I managed
to get the old olive off with the hacksaw groove/screwdriver twist
technique. I sussed out how the compression joints worked and I almost
had the first valve fitted! Unfortunately the tail is too long by about
5mill! I'm having trouble fitting the valves, even if everything was
tightened the bottom pipe is too far from the valve to slot in. Is
there a way to do this without removing the rads from the walls and
bending the pipe somehow? Heres a pic showing the closest the connector
can get to the pipe. There's less than 3 inches of copper pipe to work
with from the join below (that feeds to the rad on the other side of
the wall).

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ung/TRV009.jpg

Ah - looks a problem.

Could it be I should have been sold this model instead? It looks more
like the ones I had fitted and took into PlumBase to show them.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...11_15mm1-2.jpg

I'd go for Drayton. I reckon they would fit.

I can get hold of an angle-grinder to trim the tails but I'm brobably
better served getting fully compatable fittings.

You don't use angle grinders for this sort of thing. ;-) If you did need
to cut down the supplied valve to rad pipe, use a hacksaw (carefully) then
tidy the end with a file.

Looking around there
seem to be several models that might fit the bill. I was sold the
Mistral M10, but I think it should have been the M11 (picture linked
above). Unfortunately Plumbase where I purchased the M10's does not
appear to stock them.

--
*Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks again to everyone who replied. I've had a change of tack now
anyway, and will only be replacing the bedroom TRV. I'm installing
standard valves on the living area rads and fitting a room stat. From
what I've been reading, and I've been reading every plumbing site I can
find, it would be an all-round better option, saving energy and wear
and tear on the boiler.
By the time I hired a coring drill to go through the six-inch blockwork
I reckon I'd be as well to pay for a cheapish wireless unit. Going to
plumbase tomorrow morning so I'll hopefully get this finished over the
weekend. My electric heater must be costing a fortune by now.