Stain Matching: A Better Way? (Long)
 

I've been working for three weeks to get a perfect stain formula to
match my existing Oak kitchen cabinets. Because I'm building new
cabinets and trim to match the existing cabinets, the stain has to
match perfectly, or it'll stand out like a sore thumb.

I started out at the home center. The store clerk was very
helpful...he opened up cans, grabbed some scrap red oak and started
dabbing on stains. There was no stain that was a perfect match, so I
finally decided on mixing two of the Minwax oil-based stains.

I get home and plane up some fresh boards to experiment on. I use 3
boards: one for the cherry stain, one for the colonial maple stain, and
one for a 50/50 mix of the two. Of course you have to wait 4 hours
between coats, so it takes 3 days just to get a board with test patches
of 1 coat, 2 coats, 3 coats, and 4 coats - all with polyurethane coats
on top. Wow.

I get looking at the sample boards closely. The 50:50 mix is alot
closer, but it doesn't seem 'red' enough. So I make up another test
board and a formula of 2 parts colonial maple: 1 part cherry. Another
couple of days for several coats, and this sample is looking very
close.

So I get looking at the sample boards...they look pretty close, so I
grab my 1/8" inch oak skins that I'll be applying to the sides of the
new cabinets, and start staining away. After the first couple of coats
dry, it's clear that the panels are missing a 'tint'. I have some
Minwax water-based Golden Oak stain laying around, so I try applying
this over top of the oil-based.

Once I get the panels all poly'ed they look very close, but I'm
thinking, 'Hmmn...this is going to be a difficult application to touch
up, or match at a later date.'

Back to the home center. Find a third oil-based stain with a yellow
tint, Puritan Pine. Another test board, several more formulas and test
applications. Finally, I've settled on a formula that will work...I'm
sure...really.

Well I'll have another look tonight before I stain my newly fabricated
door. If it still looks good in the day light, I'll start by staining
the back of the door, in case I need to adjust yet again.

THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY?

Steve

Mr Fixit eh wrote:
I've been working for three weeks to get a perfect stain formula to
match my existing Oak kitchen cabinets. Because I'm building new
cabinets and trim to match the existing cabinets, the stain has to
match perfectly, or it'll stand out like a sore thumb.


Snipped long and painful process.


THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY?


There is I am sure of it.

Let me know if you find it. ;-)

I had to match some Vilas. Sounds like we had similar experiences.

Our local hardware store does paint matching -- course you did not
suggest paint as an option. LOL




Steve



--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
http://woodwork.pmccl.com

In a similar problem, I made the same efforts at home-brew stains, with same
mediocre results. Then I took a sample to an unfinished furniture store
that also did finishing, They matched it perfectly and I picked up a can of
their product the next day. It cost me $20 for the product, but it worked
perfectly. It turns out that this is a problem that professionals have all
the time, and they go to a specialist with experience. I got my advice from
a general contractor acquaintance, so you might either try a similar source
for info or find someone that does finishing as a specialty. -- Good luck
and tell us how it works out.

"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been working for three weeks to get a perfect stain formula to
match my existing Oak kitchen cabinets. Because I'm building new
cabinets and trim to match the existing cabinets, the stain has to
match perfectly, or it'll stand out like a sore thumb.

I started out at the home center. The store clerk was very
helpful...he opened up cans, grabbed some scrap red oak and started
dabbing on stains. There was no stain that was a perfect match, so I
finally decided on mixing two of the Minwax oil-based stains.

I get home and plane up some fresh boards to experiment on. I use 3
boards: one for the cherry stain, one for the colonial maple stain, and
one for a 50/50 mix of the two. Of course you have to wait 4 hours
between coats, so it takes 3 days just to get a board with test patches
of 1 coat, 2 coats, 3 coats, and 4 coats - all with polyurethane coats
on top. Wow.

I get looking at the sample boards closely. The 50:50 mix is alot
closer, but it doesn't seem 'red' enough. So I make up another test
board and a formula of 2 parts colonial maple: 1 part cherry. Another
couple of days for several coats, and this sample is looking very
close.

So I get looking at the sample boards...they look pretty close, so I
grab my 1/8" inch oak skins that I'll be applying to the sides of the
new cabinets, and start staining away. After the first couple of coats
dry, it's clear that the panels are missing a 'tint'. I have some
Minwax water-based Golden Oak stain laying around, so I try applying
this over top of the oil-based.

Once I get the panels all poly'ed they look very close, but I'm
thinking, 'Hmmn...this is going to be a difficult application to touch
up, or match at a later date.'

Back to the home center. Find a third oil-based stain with a yellow
tint, Puritan Pine. Another test board, several more formulas and test
applications. Finally, I've settled on a formula that will work...I'm
sure...really.

Well I'll have another look tonight before I stain my newly fabricated
door. If it still looks good in the day light, I'll start by staining
the back of the door, in case I need to adjust yet again.

THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY?

Steve

Sorry for your woes.

Trial and error is the non-professional method (and for the pros that I
know). Write down you final formula and/or application method and save it
somewhere that you can find in the future.

I'm not crazy about Minwax products. Color not consistent, but that's
another story.

Stick with your method. A hair drier (NOT A HEAT GUN) could be used to
accelerate the drying time, maybe cutting down on the 3 day cycle. Use this
on small samples only, in a well ventilated area (safety first.)



"Mr Fixit eh" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been working for three weeks to get a perfect stain formula to
match my existing Oak kitchen cabinets. Because I'm building new
cabinets and trim to match the existing cabinets, the stain has to
match perfectly, or it'll stand out like a sore thumb.

I started out at the home center. The store clerk was very
helpful...he opened up cans, grabbed some scrap red oak and started
dabbing on stains. There was no stain that was a perfect match, so I
finally decided on mixing two of the Minwax oil-based stains.

I get home and plane up some fresh boards to experiment on. I use 3
boards: one for the cherry stain, one for the colonial maple stain, and
one for a 50/50 mix of the two. Of course you have to wait 4 hours
between coats, so it takes 3 days just to get a board with test patches
of 1 coat, 2 coats, 3 coats, and 4 coats - all with polyurethane coats
on top. Wow.

I get looking at the sample boards closely. The 50:50 mix is alot
closer, but it doesn't seem 'red' enough. So I make up another test
board and a formula of 2 parts colonial maple: 1 part cherry. Another
couple of days for several coats, and this sample is looking very
close.

So I get looking at the sample boards...they look pretty close, so I
grab my 1/8" inch oak skins that I'll be applying to the sides of the
new cabinets, and start staining away. After the first couple of coats
dry, it's clear that the panels are missing a 'tint'. I have some
Minwax water-based Golden Oak stain laying around, so I try applying
this over top of the oil-based.

Once I get the panels all poly'ed they look very close, but I'm
thinking, 'Hmmn...this is going to be a difficult application to touch
up, or match at a later date.'

Back to the home center. Find a third oil-based stain with a yellow
tint, Puritan Pine. Another test board, several more formulas and test
applications. Finally, I've settled on a formula that will work...I'm
sure...really.

Well I'll have another look tonight before I stain my newly fabricated
door. If it still looks good in the day light, I'll start by staining
the back of the door, in case I need to adjust yet again.

THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY?

Steve

Mr Fixit eh wrote:
I've been working for three weeks to get a perfect stain formula to
match my existing Oak kitchen cabinets. Because I'm building new
cabinets and trim to match the existing cabinets, the stain has to
match perfectly, or it'll stand out like a sore thumb.


THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY?

Steve


I had a Sherwin Williams paint store employee create a stain match for
me - they needed about a day, a sample of what I wanted to match (e.g.
a drawer from a dresser), and some scrap wood to test the stain on.
They did a great job and there was no charge for the matching - just
the regular cost of the stain. They took one of their stock stains and
added pigment to it.

Charles

World Traveler wrote:
In a similar problem, I made the same efforts at home-brew stains, with same
mediocre results. Then I took a sample to an unfinished furniture store
that also did finishing, They matched it perfectly and I picked up a can of
their product the next day.


It cost me $20 for the product, but it worked
perfectly. It turns out that this is a problem that professionals have all
the time, and they go to a specialist with experience. I got my advice from
a general contractor acquaintance, so you might either try a similar source
for info or find someone that does finishing as a specialty. -- Good luck
and tell us how it works out.

Good tip will try that too one time and see if it is better - probably
will be.

Thanks


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Mr Fixit eh wrote:
I've been working for three weeks to get a perfect stain formula to
match my existing Oak kitchen cabinets. Because I'm building new
cabinets and trim to match the existing cabinets, the stain has to
match perfectly, or it'll stand out like a sore thumb.


I had to match some existing cabinets for some new work in a co-worker's
kitchen. I found the easiest way was to call the place where the
original cabinets were purchased and have them order the stain from the
cabinet manufacturer. A quart cost about $7.00.


--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

Great tips! I will make the rounds of the paint stores before I lay
any stain on any 'good' wood. Maybe I'll get lucky.

Unfortunately, I can't track down where the cabinets were purchased or
who installed them.

To make things even worse, there is a minor variation in the existing
stain itself. Pretty much the same tint, but some is a little lighter
or darker, perhaps due to different grains in the wood.

Thanks,
Steve

For occasional matching, I'd go with those who suggested paying a pro shop to
handle it. Trying to match using various off-the-shelf stains is an exercise
in frustration. I've got a bunch of those cans, that I primarily use for the
colored pigment on the bottom. For the color I mix from a selection of dyes.
They dry quickly, and I have three different light sources to check the
result. But this is not something to invest in for one matching job.
GerryG

On 17 Mar 2005 07:27:01 -0800, "Mr Fixit eh" wrote:

I've been working for three weeks to get a perfect stain formula to
match my existing Oak kitchen cabinets. Because I'm building new
cabinets and trim to match the existing cabinets, the stain has to
match perfectly, or it'll stand out like a sore thumb.

snip
THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY?

Steve

On 17 Mar 2005 07:27:01 -0800, the inscrutable "Mr Fixit eh"
spake:

I've been working for three weeks to get a perfect stain formula to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Stop right there with the oxymoron, please.


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On 17 Mar 2005 07:27:01 -0800, "Mr Fixit eh"
wrote:

THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY?

1. All woods are brown.

2. Some of them are yellow brown, some of them are reddish brown,
some of them are greenish brown, some of them are blackish brown.

3. Find the lightest brown in the wood that you want to match -
this is your base coat.

3A. Wash coat with shellac.

4. Find the next most prevalent shade and apply it with a
feathered brush, with the grain.

4A. Wash coat with shellac.

5. Find the next most prevalent shade and work it in with an
artist's brush.

5A. Wash coat with shellac.

6. Look for the singularities of the species that you are dealing
with. For instance, cherry often shows pitch slashes. Find the color
and apply it judiciously with a finely pointed camel's hair brush of
the appropriate size.

Guess what? - wash coat with shellac (we are talking about a 1 LB cut,
here, and above)

When all of the above fail, buy peel and stick veneer of the
appropriate species and have a nice day.





Thomas J. Watson - WoodDorker

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

The problem is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to match a
very complex finish schedule with something much more simple. The kitchen
cabinets have a color and finish that was put on in several layers - stains,
sealers, toners, possibly glazes, and top coats. In addition, even half-way
decent kitchen cabinets have finishes that meet the KCMA's standards so they
will stand up to the wear and dirt that comes from being in a kitchen.
Also, wood is not uniformly colored. There are all sorts of different
colors in the wood - browns, reds, greens, yellows, etc.
One way to match the color is to start with a base stain that is pretty
close to what you want. Don't spend forever on it. You can then tone it
with the appropriate toner. You don't have to tone the whole piece, only
where it is needed. If you need a glaze, fine. Once you are happy, topcoat
it. Remember, the topcoat may impart some color of its own so be sure to
topcoat your test pieces.

Good Luck.