Working with hide glue on old drawer
 

My neighbor's drawer came apart and he wants me to fix it properly.
It has very gappy dovetails and a sheen on the outside that looks
like either hide glue had been painted on or some other glue had
been used at a later date. The right side came apart from the front
and the back of the loose side is warped out 1/8" from the bottom.

Questions:

Who works with hide glue?

Will it remelt with a hair dryer or carefully applied hot air gun?

Will liquid hide glue work on top of old pot-applied hide glue?

I carefully applied some yellow glue to the warped back to test
the strength and it doesn't appear that it will hold.

What would YOU do in this case?

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That's the only thing I used to use .. but not for a long while...

Traditional Wood Working Techniques (The Best of FW) has an article on
Failing Joints and Glues and specifically reccommends hide glue if you
know you will have to repair a joint eventually. (Which is probably a
yes... for any joint.)
See:
Coping with failing joints by Bob Flexner Pg. 54 ISBN 0-924391-94-2

FWIW

I just got some Tite Bond (original formula) today, but will take the
information from a few posters on this forum and get one of the heating
pots and some hide glue pellets and go back to that glue for inside
"fine" furniture, jewel boxes and musical instruments.

Would have bought the hide glue today but iws $7 for a few ounces and $8
for a quart of Titebond and I need some large quantities immediately.

Tray a hair dryer -- I would :-) Caould you make it worse?

You will have to remove any yellow glue and build up the joints again
where you removed wood. The "artifical" glue seals the wood so hide glue
won't be re-absorbed.

Good luck. You will probably need it.


Larry Jaques wrote:
My neighbor's drawer came apart and he wants me to fix it properly.
It has very gappy dovetails and a sheen on the outside that looks
like either hide glue had been painted on or some other glue had
been used at a later date. The right side came apart from the front
and the back of the loose side is warped out 1/8" from the bottom.

Questions:

Who works with hide glue?


Used to. Believe my info to be correct - but remember info is worth what
you paid for it. :-)

Will it remelt with a hair dryer or carefully applied hot air gun?

It should. It should melt below the boiling point of water. If you
recall you are supposed to use a double boiler to melt hide glue...
140 - 145

http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/usinghideglue.pdf



Will liquid hide glue work on top of old pot-applied hide glue?

It should. -- mutually dissolves...


I carefully applied some yellow glue to the warped back to test
the strength and it doesn't appear that it will hold.


Now you have to remove it -- and probably a bit of wood.

What would YOU do in this case?


Me? -- Probaly faster to make them a new drawer. You did need a
commission did't you?


--
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
----
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
My neighbor's drawer came apart and he wants me to fix it properly.
It has very gappy dovetails and a sheen on the outside that looks
like either hide glue had been painted on or some other glue had
been used at a later date. The right side came apart from the front
and the back of the loose side is warped out 1/8" from the bottom.

Questions:

Who works with hide glue?

Will it remelt with a hair dryer or carefully applied hot air gun?

Will liquid hide glue work on top of old pot-applied hide glue?

I carefully applied some yellow glue to the warped back to test
the strength and it doesn't appear that it will hold.

What would YOU do in this case?

hide glue is hot water soluble. it might get soft with a hot air gun, but it
won't go anywhere.

--
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
----
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

"Will" wrote in message
...
That's the only thing I used to use .. but not for a long while...

Traditional Wood Working Techniques (The Best of FW) has an article on
Failing Joints and Glues and specifically reccommends hide glue if you
know you will have to repair a joint eventually. (Which is probably a
yes... for any joint.)
See:
Coping with failing joints by Bob Flexner Pg. 54 ISBN 0-924391-94-2

FWIW

I just got some Tite Bond (original formula) today, but will take the
information from a few posters on this forum and get one of the heating
pots and some hide glue pellets and go back to that glue for inside "fine"
furniture, jewel boxes and musical instruments.

Would have bought the hide glue today but iws $7 for a few ounces and $8
for a quart of Titebond and I need some large quantities immediately.

http://www.glassmart.com/chipping_glue.asp

$9/lb
$8/lb for 5 lbs
$5.8/lb for 50 lbs

Tray a hair dryer -- I would :-) Caould you make it worse?

You will have to remove any yellow glue and build up the joints again
where you removed wood. The "artifical" glue seals the wood so hide glue
won't be re-absorbed.

Good luck. You will probably need it.


Larry Jaques wrote:
My neighbor's drawer came apart and he wants me to fix it properly.
It has very gappy dovetails and a sheen on the outside that looks
like either hide glue had been painted on or some other glue had
been used at a later date. The right side came apart from the front
and the back of the loose side is warped out 1/8" from the bottom.

Questions:

Who works with hide glue?

Used to. Believe my info to be correct - but remember info is worth what
you paid for it. :-)

Will it remelt with a hair dryer or carefully applied hot air gun?

It should. It should melt below the boiling point of water. If you recall
you are supposed to use a double boiler to melt hide glue...
140 - 145

http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/usinghideglue.pdf



Will liquid hide glue work on top of old pot-applied hide glue?

It should. -- mutually dissolves...


I carefully applied some yellow glue to the warped back to test
the strength and it doesn't appear that it will hold.


Now you have to remove it -- and probably a bit of wood.

What would YOU do in this case?


Me? -- Probaly faster to make them a new drawer. You did need a commission
did't you?


--
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
----
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

It was somewhere outside Barstow when Larry Jaques
wrote:

Who works with hide glue?

Loads of people. It's a bit of a pain to use, but it's good stuff.

Will it remelt with a hair dryer or carefully applied hot air gun?

It's like shellac. Yes, you can re-work these materials. But only when
they're relatively fresh. By the time they're old enough to actually
start failing, they've gone beyond when you can still rework them
successfully.

Will liquid hide glue work on top of old pot-applied hide glue?

That's probably your best solution. So long as the underlying coating
is stable, then more over the top is fine. But a layer of new glue
over a layer of dust is about as stable as an avalanche corniche.

I usually go over old glue with a scraper. What doesn't come off with
a light pass is OK to stay.

What would YOU do in this case?

I wouldn't expect glue to hold wood somewhere where it doesn't want to
go. Don't sit on a warped panel and expect glue to hold it down
forever. Nail it if you have to (this is usual for drawer bottoms, as
it allows more moisture shrinkage). Maybe even replace the panel.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 01:03:59 +0000, the inscrutable Andy Dingley
spake:

It's like shellac. Yes, you can re-work these materials. But only when
they're relatively fresh. By the time they're old enough to actually
start failing, they've gone beyond when you can still rework them
successfully.

Right. I can see that now. It's way too powdery.


Will liquid hide glue work on top of old pot-applied hide glue?

That's probably your best solution. So long as the underlying coating
is stable, then more over the top is fine. But a layer of new glue
over a layer of dust is about as stable as an avalanche corniche.

It's not. Read on.


I usually go over old glue with a scraper. What doesn't come off with
a light pass is OK to stay.

After soaking the loose joint quickly in hot water, I was able to
remove it and found at least THREE different types of glue embedded
in the joints. I scraped what I could and will use some 5-minute
epoxy on it tomorrow, once it's well dried. A hair dryer took most
of the hummerditty out of it today.


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Larry Jaques wrote in
:

snip

After soaking the loose joint quickly in hot water, I was able to
remove it and found at least THREE different types of glue embedded
in the joints. I scraped what I could and will use some 5-minute
epoxy on it tomorrow, once it's well dried. A hair dryer took most
of the hummerditty out of it today.


Don't tell anyone, but I've used 5 min epoxy to fix really bad dovetails,
too. Only these weren't a couple of generations old...

Patriarch

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 19:57:46 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 01:03:59 +0000, the inscrutable Andy Dingley
spake:

It's like shellac. Yes, you can re-work these materials. But only when
they're relatively fresh. By the time they're old enough to actually
start failing, they've gone beyond when you can still rework them
successfully.

Right. I can see that now. It's way too powdery.


Will liquid hide glue work on top of old pot-applied hide glue?

That's probably your best solution. So long as the underlying coating
is stable, then more over the top is fine. But a layer of new glue
over a layer of dust is about as stable as an avalanche corniche.

It's not. Read on.


I usually go over old glue with a scraper. What doesn't come off with
a light pass is OK to stay.

After soaking the loose joint quickly in hot water, I was able to
remove it and found at least THREE different types of glue embedded
in the joints. I scraped what I could and will use some 5-minute
epoxy on it tomorrow, once it's well dried. A hair dryer took most
of the hummerditty out of it today.


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Endangered SKEETS! ||| Web Application Programming
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While I'll completely agree with Andy, the biggest problem I've seen are those
old, varied repair attempts. Even with epoxy, you've got a lot of scraping and
cleaning to get a good base. I remember one that had epoxy on top of the old
stuff, and it came off in chunks. As you did here, I've found that hot water
and heat work the best.
GerryG

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 22:47:13 -0600, the inscrutable Patriarch
spake:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

snip

After soaking the loose joint quickly in hot water, I was able to
remove it and found at least THREE different types of glue embedded
in the joints. I scraped what I could and will use some 5-minute
epoxy on it tomorrow, once it's well dried. A hair dryer took most
of the hummerditty out of it today.


Don't tell anyone, but I've used 5 min epoxy to fix really bad dovetails,
too. Only these weren't a couple of generations old...

After disassembling the side, I saw rounded half-blind dovies covered
in all those different glues and knew it would be no shame to use
epoxy on this POS. Especially for $5-10.


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Save the ||| http://diversify.com
Endangered SKEETS! ||| Web Application Programming
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