FACE FRAME FIRST OR LAST?
 

A friend and I ( both amateur wooddorkers) have been going around and around
over the order in constructing cabinets. He's an AVID pockethole man and
says he always starts by making the faceframe first and then constructing
the cabinet to fit.

I tend to do it the other way - seems to me that if an adjustment need to be
made, it's much easier to adjust the faceframe to fit rather than vice
versa.

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first and
fit the faceframe toward the end.

Or is it just personal preference.

Vic

--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't

My dad was a cabinet maker who made a lot of cabinets. He used a lot of
standardized 8' sections, because they were convenient to transport and
install. When business got slow, he would make face frames, which were easy
to store until needed. So, usually face frames first.

Steve

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
.. .
A friend and I ( both amateur wooddorkers) have been going around and
around
over the order in constructing cabinets. He's an AVID pockethole man and
says he always starts by making the faceframe first and then constructing
the cabinet to fit.

I tend to do it the other way - seems to me that if an adjustment need to
be
made, it's much easier to adjust the faceframe to fit rather than vice
versa.

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first
and
fit the faceframe toward the end.

Or is it just personal preference.

Vic

--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:08:27 GMT, Vic Baron wrote:
A friend and I ( both amateur wooddorkers) have been going around and around
over the order in constructing cabinets. He's an AVID pockethole man and
says he always starts by making the faceframe first and then constructing
the cabinet to fit.

That's how I do it, and it seems easiest that way.

I tend to do it the other way - seems to me that if an adjustment need to be
made, it's much easier to adjust the faceframe to fit rather than vice
versa.

Funny, that's why I make the other parts after the face frame.

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first and
fit the faceframe toward the end.
Or is it just personal preference.

Sounds like that might be it. For me, it's more convenient to do
the face frame first, then two sides, then the bottom, then the
back. Each step gives me a chance to make sure nothing is getting out
of whack. Also, if nothing else, it's easier to attach the faceframe to
the sides and bottom when you don't have to crawl inside the cabinet to
reach the screws.?

Dave Hinz

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
.. .
A friend and I ( both amateur wooddorkers) have been going around and
around
over the order in constructing cabinets. He's an AVID pockethole man and
says he always starts by making the faceframe first and then constructing
the cabinet to fit.

I tend to do it the other way - seems to me that if an adjustment need to
be
made, it's much easier to adjust the faceframe to fit rather than vice
versa.

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first
and
fit the faceframe toward the end.

Your logic and mine parallel here. I always build the face frames last and
make them to fit the bottom width of the cabinet and height of the cabinet.
I figure it is easier to cut small pieces of wood to fit a larger caucus
than it is to cut larger pieces to fit a smaller face frame. If you screw
up and cut a face frame part too short it is cheaper to cut another piece
than to cut another plywood panel which often equates to buying another $60+
panel. I build my face frames with pocket holes also.

Sounds like that might be it. For me, it's more convenient to do
the face frame first, then two sides, then the bottom, then the
back. Each step gives me a chance to make sure nothing is getting out
of whack. Also, if nothing else, it's easier to attach the faceframe to
the sides and bottom when you don't have to crawl inside the cabinet to
reach the screws.?

Now that's a very good point, Dave. I've been primarily a biscuit and dowel
user and am just getting into playing with my Kreg outfit. Accessing the
screws easily would be a consideration.

Thanx,

Vic

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:23:14 GMT, Vic Baron wrote:
Sounds like that might be it. For me, it's more convenient to do
the face frame first, then two sides, then the bottom, then the
back. Each step gives me a chance to make sure nothing is getting out
of whack. Also, if nothing else, it's easier to attach the faceframe to
the sides and bottom when you don't have to crawl inside the cabinet to
reach the screws.?

Now that's a very good point, Dave. I've been primarily a biscuit and dowel
user and am just getting into playing with my Kreg outfit. Accessing the
screws easily would be a consideration.

I'm not saying it's a showstopper, don't get me wrong. I just started
doing it that way, because that's how I saw it done, and so on. To
me, it makes sense, but I can see how other than access, it wouldn't
make that much difference.

Then again, having one active glue joint at a time is preferable
to a whole face-frame slipping around.

"Leon" wrote in message
om...
"Vic Baron" wrote in message
.. .
A friend and I ( both amateur wooddorkers) have been going around and
around
over the order in constructing cabinets. He's an AVID pockethole man and
says he always starts by making the faceframe first and then
constructing
the cabinet to fit.

I tend to do it the other way - seems to me that if an adjustment need
to
be
made, it's much easier to adjust the faceframe to fit rather than vice
versa.

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first
and
fit the faceframe toward the end.

Your logic and mine parallel here. I always build the face frames last
and
make them to fit the bottom width of the cabinet and height of the
cabinet.
I figure it is easier to cut small pieces of wood to fit a larger caucus
than it is to cut larger pieces to fit a smaller face frame. If you screw
up and cut a face frame part too short it is cheaper to cut another piece
than to cut another plywood panel which often equates to buying another
$60+
panel. I build my face frames with pocket holes also.



Yes, Leon - that's my logic. No matter how much I try to be perfect, I
occasionally screw up ( blush ) and adjusting the faceframe to hide them is
a lot easier.

Of course, I *still* try for perfection :)

Vic

"Vic Baron" wrote in
:


"Leon" wrote in message
om...
snip snip

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase
first and
fit the faceframe toward the end.

Your logic and mine parallel here. I always build the face frames
last and make them to fit the bottom width of the cabinet and height
of the cabinet.
I figure it is easier to cut small pieces of wood to fit a larger
caucus than it is to cut larger pieces to fit a smaller face frame.
If you screw up and cut a face frame part too short it is cheaper to
cut another piece than to cut another plywood panel which often
equates to buying another
$60+
panel. I build my face frames with pocket holes also.

Yes, Leon - that's my logic. No matter how much I try to be perfect, I
occasionally screw up ( blush ) and adjusting the faceframe to hide
them is a lot easier.

Of course, I *still* try for perfection :)

Strangely, the face frame material seems less prone to 'moving' than the
panel goods do. Or maybe I use better grade face frame wood than the
carcase is made from. Anyhow, another reason to do boxes first.

The holy grail for sheet stock seems to be flat, light, prefinished,
economical, stable, holds fasteners and is easily worked with the tools
I already own. Haven't found it yet.

Patriarch

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:08:27 GMT, Vic Baron wrote:
A friend and I ( both amateur wooddorkers) have been going around and around
over the order in constructing cabinets. He's an AVID pockethole man and
says he always starts by making the faceframe first and then constructing
the cabinet to fit.

That's how I do it, and it seems easiest that way.

I tend to do it the other way - seems to me that if an adjustment need to be
made, it's much easier to adjust the faceframe to fit rather than vice
versa.

Funny, that's why I make the other parts after the face frame.

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first and
fit the faceframe toward the end.
Or is it just personal preference.

Sounds like that might be it. For me, it's more convenient to do
the face frame first, then two sides, then the bottom, then the
back. Each step gives me a chance to make sure nothing is getting out
of whack. Also, if nothing else, it's easier to attach the faceframe to
the sides and bottom when you don't have to crawl inside the cabinet to
reach the screws.?

Dave Hinz

My approach: (YMMV)

Face frames and cabinets are made to dimension. Face frame B fits on
carcase B. Different parts of the shop. Face frames are assembled with
pocket screws and always pre-finished. They meet up much later in the
process. Attached to the carcase with 4 bisquits just for alignment. The
location of the bisquit slots are always the same, due to jigs ( A blast
of RF and the glue sets in seconds) If the grain is lively, I'd pop in a
few 18ga air nails and hide them with a wax pencil at cleanup after the
install.

If somebody can read a tape measure and a drawing, you could make the
carcase in another town and it should fit. The doors and drawers don't
meet up till the job-site.

All the probelms are worked out at the drawing stage.

I knew there was a reason I like European style cabinets... no face
frames, YAY!... 32 mm system.... YAY! (I miss my 13-hole gang drill)

0¿0

Rob

"Vic Baron" wrote in message
A friend and I ( both amateur wooddorkers) have been going around and
around
over the order in constructing cabinets. He's an AVID pockethole man and
says he always starts by making the faceframe first and then constructing
the cabinet to fit.

I tend to do it the other way - seems to me that if an adjustment need to
be
made, it's much easier to adjust the faceframe to fit rather than vice
versa.

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first
and
fit the faceframe toward the end.

Or is it just personal preference.

For me it really depends upon the number of cabinets as to which way I will
go.

For one-off cabinets, it is pretty much six of one half a dozen of the
other. However, with a row of cabinets, like a new kitchen, my strong
preference is to the do FF's first.

My reasoning is that if I take great care in fabricating square, perfectly
sized face frames, square, perfectly sized carcasses are almost a given,
making it easier to build the doors and drawers and saving a ton of
installation time.

When I start a new kitchen project, which I am in the throes of as we
speak, I make all the FF's long before I even order the sheetgoods (other
than a sample I obtain to set the dado stack). To me it is _much_ easier to
redo a FF if things need tweaking due to last minute changes, then it is to
redo an entire cabinet.

Besides, once I have a FF ready, I can put together the parts of a cabinet
on a prepared FF in just a few minutes.

.... and yes, I am an _avid_ believer in the use of pocket hole joinery for
FF's, particularly in kitchen cabinets and bath vanities. IMO, there is no
more appropriate joint for that application.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:01:52 -0500, Robatoy wrote:

4 bisquits just for alignment.
due to jigs
( A blast of RF and the glue sets in seconds)
(I miss my 13-hole gang drill)

Wow. 4 drive-by's in one post. You do suck, you know that?

Dave "I mean that in the best possible way, of course" Hinz

For kitchen/general storage cabinets, it doesn't much. I am making a
walnut, buffet styled bathroom vanity right now. I decided to make the
frame first as it takes up less space and I can fit the curved doors and
drawers first. The carcass will be simple and when I done, the whole thing
can be assembled, finished and put in the bathroom when I'm done.

Dave

Pictures here of the work in progress
http://www.teamcasa.org/workshop/currentproject.htm


"Vic Baron" wrote in message
.. .
A friend and I ( both amateur wooddorkers) have been going around and
around
over the order in constructing cabinets. He's an AVID pockethole man and
says he always starts by making the faceframe first and then constructing
the cabinet to fit.

I tend to do it the other way - seems to me that if an adjustment need to
be
made, it's much easier to adjust the faceframe to fit rather than vice
versa.

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first
and
fit the faceframe toward the end.

Or is it just personal preference.

Vic

--
There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who
don't





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In article ,
says...
If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first and
fit the faceframe toward the end.
Or is it just personal preference.

Sounds like that might be it. For me, it's more convenient to do
the face frame first, then two sides, then the bottom, then the
back.


For one carcase, one face frame, it probably makes no difference. But
if the cabinets are modular and a face frame is to cover 2 or more
carcases, it would seem to be easier to make the face frame after the
carcases are set in place so that you could adjust for any
irregularities in the installation.

Note that I say "seem" because I haven't run into that situation myself.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:08:27 GMT, "Vic Baron"
wrote:

A friend and I ( both amateur wooddorkers) have been going around and around
over the order in constructing cabinets. He's an AVID pockethole man and
says he always starts by making the faceframe first and then constructing
the cabinet to fit.

I tend to do it the other way - seems to me that if an adjustment need to be
made, it's much easier to adjust the faceframe to fit rather than vice
versa.

If I'm making a piece of furniture I always construct the carcase first and
fit the faceframe toward the end.

Or is it just personal preference.

Vic

I agree. I make my frames after constructing the carcass. Really,
there's no wrong way to do it.

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:01:52 -0500, Robatoy wrote:

4 bisquits just for alignment.
due to jigs
( A blast of RF and the glue sets in seconds)
(I miss my 13-hole gang drill)

Wow. 4 drive-by's in one post. You do suck, you know that?

Dave "I mean that in the best possible way, of course" Hinz


LOL..I'll try to keep it down.