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  #1   Report Post  
tiredofspam
 
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Default Dust Collector and compressing dust into burnable logs

I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on
workshops... I love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust
into compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.
  #2   Report Post  
Mark & Juanita
 
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:01:39 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote:

I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on
workshops... I love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust
into compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.


Haven't run across that, but one idea I saw in a magazine a number of
years ago was to mix sawdust (chips in a DC should work just as well) with
melted paraffin. Poured into coffee cans with a starting wick, this was
purported to work well as smudge pots. Poured into bricks, it should work
at a minimum as firestarters for fireplaces.




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
  #3   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message Too bad Onieda
doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.


Haven't run across that, but one idea I saw in a magazine a number of
years ago was to mix sawdust (chips in a DC should work just as well) with
melted paraffin. Poured into coffee cans with a starting wick, this was
purported to work well as smudge pots. Poured into bricks, it should work
at a minimum as firestarters for fireplaces.


I wonder if a paper slurry can be mixed with chips and cast into logs.
Compression would have to be very high to do with no binders. Something
with a hydraulic cylinder could be made to work if you had the right mold.

One of our local wood suppliers ships his chips to Maine where a company
makes pellets. The Woodcraft store gives/sells theirs to a horse farm where
it is used for bedding.


  #4   Report Post  
Rob V
 
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How about a 8" PVC pipe w/ a cap on the end.

Pour the dust in - make a "smasher" (think butter churn) and pour and mash.
May need to add something to help make it stick together - the parrifin idea
seems pretty good.
then just unscrew the cap and push it out.

If you have a Hydraulic press (about 80bux at HF for the small 1)- Im sure
you could come up w/ something.

Keep us posted.


"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on workshops... I
love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.



  #5   Report Post  
FMB
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on workshops... I
love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.


Three options here. First would be to get a ram/press and feed wood chips
and saw dust into a mold along with black (or log) wax available from
refineries that use high wax content crude oil (San Jaquine Valley crude,
aka SJV). The wax would be a byproduct and sold off.

Second, trade your wood chips and saw dust to a company that makes these
logs (presto).

Third, feed sawdust and wood chips to an elephant. )
--

FMB
(only one B in FMB)




  #6   Report Post  
George E. Cawthon
 
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Default

Paraffin isn't too good if you plan to burn it in a stove.
But to hold the stuff together you could try oatmeal or
wheat paste. If you mixed it good, rammed it hard, and let
it dry out, it would probably be pretty hard.

Rob V wrote:
How about a 8" PVC pipe w/ a cap on the end.

Pour the dust in - make a "smasher" (think butter churn) and pour and mash.
May need to add something to help make it stick together - the parrifin idea
seems pretty good.
then just unscrew the cap and push it out.

If you have a Hydraulic press (about 80bux at HF for the small 1)- Im sure
you could come up w/ something.

Keep us posted.


"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...

I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on workshops... I
love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.




  #7   Report Post  
Clint
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My father recently helped set up a plant up here in Canada that turns
sawdust, wood chips, wax, and a little potato starch into molds, which are
then turned into trapasoidal fire logs. I can get some of the details from
him perhaps (like the ratios used), and find out what pressure is required
to form the logs. It's pretty basic stuff, excluding the transport
mechanisms required to churn them out at reasonably high volume. FWIW, they
get about 3 to 4 hours burn time from a 3 pound log.

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on workshops... I
love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.



  #8   Report Post  
Silvan
 
Posts: n/a
Default

FMB wrote:

Third, feed sawdust and wood chips to an elephant. )


How would you fit beachball sized logs in the fireplace?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
  #9   Report Post  
dzine
 
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I use my dust and shavings for the night time or in 'sleep' mode. Just
cover your wood fire with the stuff and the fire stays 'in' all night,
keeps the room warm. In the morning put on some kindling and a blow
will light the fire again. The trick is to give up matches altogether.

  #10   Report Post  
tiredofspam
 
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I'm not sure I understand.
Won't the dust and shavings just burn very quickly... and be gone?
It this in a fireplace or stove?


dzine wrote:
I use my dust and shavings for the night time or in 'sleep' mode. Just
cover your wood fire with the stuff and the fire stays 'in' all night,
keeps the room warm. In the morning put on some kindling and a blow
will light the fire again. The trick is to give up matches altogether.



  #11   Report Post  
tiredofspam
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I am thinking probably a steel pipe. I think the pvc would blow out
under the pressure. a harbor freight ram is a good idea.. .probably get
other uses out of it too.

Rob V wrote:

How about a 8" PVC pipe w/ a cap on the end.

Pour the dust in - make a "smasher" (think butter churn) and pour and mash.
May need to add something to help make it stick together - the parrifin idea
seems pretty good.
then just unscrew the cap and push it out.

If you have a Hydraulic press (about 80bux at HF for the small 1)- Im sure
you could come up w/ something.

Keep us posted.


"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...

I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on workshops... I
love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.




  #12   Report Post  
tiredofspam
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Finally we are getting somewhere.
Is this a homemade system for the plant, or commercial?
If commercial what is the name of the maker?
Wax ... I would think wax would make a mess in the fireplace?

I am interested... seems to me that it is better than just carting the
load upstairs to be put out for trash... I imagine my collectors hate
getting a pile of dust in the face, I would like to reuse the stuff. I
sometimes feel like putting the dust in the fireplace but am afraid of
the flash from fine dust loosely thrown in.

Clint wrote:

My father recently helped set up a plant up here in Canada that turns
sawdust, wood chips, wax, and a little potato starch into molds, which are
then turned into trapasoidal fire logs. I can get some of the details from
him perhaps (like the ratios used), and find out what pressure is required
to form the logs. It's pretty basic stuff, excluding the transport
mechanisms required to churn them out at reasonably high volume. FWIW, they
get about 3 to 4 hours burn time from a 3 pound log.

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...

I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on workshops... I
love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.




  #13   Report Post  
FMB
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Finally we are getting somewhere.
Is this a homemade system for the plant, or commercial?
If commercial what is the name of the maker?
Wax ... I would think wax would make a mess in the fireplace?

Most, if not all, commercial log makers use wax as a binder. I don't know
at what proportion it is injected or if the chips/dust soak in it making a
slurry and the excess wax is squeezed out during the pressing.

FMB


  #14   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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Default

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 11:00:33 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

Won't the dust and shavings just burn very quickly... and be gone?


Depend on the quantity and the hearth design. Shavings burn very
quickly, but a reasonable quantity of dust packs down into a dense
pile with little airflow, so burns very slowly. It's the dust pile
that will stay in overnight.

OTOH, dust piles burn cold. You may see extra trouble with tar
deposits in the flue.

  #15   Report Post  
dzine
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A fireplace. Shavings burn quickly and dust glows slowly. So keep the
shavings for the morning or whenever you need a quick burn. The dust
restricts air so less combustion, works in stove too.



  #16   Report Post  
Clint
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's a commercial plant (i..e. it's making logs for retail sale), but built
from scratch. They've gone through numerous revisions trying to get their
processes to where they need them to be. Things like getting the logs at
exactly the right weight, trying to get the wax/wood ratio right to get the
burntime/cost effective, etc.

They don't use much wax in the mixture, I don't believe. It's by far the
most expensive component of the logs, so they want to keep that to a
minimum. Just enough to hold it together after it's been pressed. I don't
think the wax causes any issues in the fireplaces, but I haven't tried one
myself, as we have a gas fireplace.

I'll have to see what details I can give out based on their patents. I'll
try to post back with some details. It's about time for my filial phone
call, anyway.

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Finally we are getting somewhere.
Is this a homemade system for the plant, or commercial?
If commercial what is the name of the maker?
Wax ... I would think wax would make a mess in the fireplace?

I am interested... seems to me that it is better than just carting the
load upstairs to be put out for trash... I imagine my collectors hate
getting a pile of dust in the face, I would like to reuse the stuff. I
sometimes feel like putting the dust in the fireplace but am afraid of the
flash from fine dust loosely thrown in.

Clint wrote:

My father recently helped set up a plant up here in Canada that turns
sawdust, wood chips, wax, and a little potato starch into molds, which
are then turned into trapasoidal fire logs. I can get some of the
details from him perhaps (like the ratios used), and find out what
pressure is required to form the logs. It's pretty basic stuff,
excluding the transport mechanisms required to churn them out at
reasonably high volume. FWIW, they get about 3 to 4 hours burn time from
a 3 pound log.

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...

I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on workshops...
I love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.




  #17   Report Post  
CW
 
Posts: n/a
Default

They should be real pleased that you wnt to give out details of their
industrial project.

"Clint" wrote in message
news:cqOPd.379297$Xk.339176@pd7tw3no...
It's a commercial plant (i..e. it's making logs for retail sale), but

built
from scratch. They've gone through numerous revisions trying to get their
processes to where they need them to be. Things like getting the logs at
exactly the right weight, trying to get the wax/wood ratio right to get

the
burntime/cost effective, etc.

They don't use much wax in the mixture, I don't believe. It's by far the
most expensive component of the logs, so they want to keep that to a
minimum. Just enough to hold it together after it's been pressed. I

don't
think the wax causes any issues in the fireplaces, but I haven't tried one
myself, as we have a gas fireplace.

I'll have to see what details I can give out based on their patents. I'll
try to post back with some details. It's about time for my filial phone
call, anyway.

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Finally we are getting somewhere.
Is this a homemade system for the plant, or commercial?
If commercial what is the name of the maker?
Wax ... I would think wax would make a mess in the fireplace?

I am interested... seems to me that it is better than just carting the
load upstairs to be put out for trash... I imagine my collectors hate
getting a pile of dust in the face, I would like to reuse the stuff. I
sometimes feel like putting the dust in the fireplace but am afraid of

the
flash from fine dust loosely thrown in.

Clint wrote:

My father recently helped set up a plant up here in Canada that turns
sawdust, wood chips, wax, and a little potato starch into molds, which
are then turned into trapasoidal fire logs. I can get some of the
details from him perhaps (like the ratios used), and find out what
pressure is required to form the logs. It's pretty basic stuff,
excluding the transport mechanisms required to churn them out at
reasonably high volume. FWIW, they get about 3 to 4 hours burn time

from
a 3 pound log.

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...

I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on

workshops...
I love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust

into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to

inexpensively
compress them.





  #18   Report Post  
Clint
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That's why I said I would check before posting any details.

Clint

"CW" wrote in message
...
They should be real pleased that you wnt to give out details of their
industrial project.

"Clint" wrote in message
news:cqOPd.379297$Xk.339176@pd7tw3no...
It's a commercial plant (i..e. it's making logs for retail sale), but

built
from scratch. They've gone through numerous revisions trying to get
their
processes to where they need them to be. Things like getting the logs at
exactly the right weight, trying to get the wax/wood ratio right to get

the
burntime/cost effective, etc.

They don't use much wax in the mixture, I don't believe. It's by far the
most expensive component of the logs, so they want to keep that to a
minimum. Just enough to hold it together after it's been pressed. I

don't
think the wax causes any issues in the fireplaces, but I haven't tried
one
myself, as we have a gas fireplace.

I'll have to see what details I can give out based on their patents.
I'll
try to post back with some details. It's about time for my filial phone
call, anyway.

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Finally we are getting somewhere.
Is this a homemade system for the plant, or commercial?
If commercial what is the name of the maker?
Wax ... I would think wax would make a mess in the fireplace?

I am interested... seems to me that it is better than just carting the
load upstairs to be put out for trash... I imagine my collectors hate
getting a pile of dust in the face, I would like to reuse the stuff. I
sometimes feel like putting the dust in the fireplace but am afraid of

the
flash from fine dust loosely thrown in.

Clint wrote:

My father recently helped set up a plant up here in Canada that turns
sawdust, wood chips, wax, and a little potato starch into molds, which
are then turned into trapasoidal fire logs. I can get some of the
details from him perhaps (like the ratios used), and find out what
pressure is required to form the logs. It's pretty basic stuff,
excluding the transport mechanisms required to churn them out at
reasonably high volume. FWIW, they get about 3 to 4 hours burn time

from
a 3 pound log.

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...

I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on

workshops...
I love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust

into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to

inexpensively
compress them.







  #19   Report Post  
Eric J. Comeau
 
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Default

Many wood pellets, fireplace log, briquet are made with wood only and some
use shavings only,no wax or other binders. These shavings have to be dry,
broken in finer particles and pressed under very high pressure. Logs and
briquets are usually made with hydraulic rams, pellets with rotary dies.

Eric
"dzine" wrote in message
ups.com...
A fireplace. Shavings burn quickly and dust glows slowly. So keep the
shavings for the morning or whenever you need a quick burn. The dust
restricts air so less combustion, works in stove too.



  #20   Report Post  
Eric J. Comeau
 
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Hi guys it is me again. For a homemade rig, it could be done with a little
searching and the briquet would probably be the best approach. We used to
have a mill making wood only logs and 8 inch of fine hardwood particles were
compressed into 1/2 inch. One of those 1/2 inch section in your bathroom
sink with water would fill up the whole sink in a matter of minutes. Sure
would not want to ship them via ship or at least I would hope that they did
not have a leak.

Eric
"dzine" wrote in message
ups.com...
A fireplace. Shavings burn quickly and dust glows slowly. So keep the
shavings for the morning or whenever you need a quick burn. The dust
restricts air so less combustion, works in stove too.





  #21   Report Post  
Tom Watson
 
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Default

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 00:16:05 GMT, "Eric J. Comeau"
wrote:
One of those 1/2 inch section in your bathroom
sink with water would fill up the whole sink in a matter of minutes. Sure
would not want to ship them via ship or at least I would hope that they did
not have a leak.


Kinda make me wonder about ships that haul rice.


tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)
  #22   Report Post  
WoodchuckCanuck
 
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Just some thoughts running through my head on this topic...Isn't this
idea the same as MDF products? Basically sawdust held with a binder and
compressed. Homemade solutions: For compression, would a log splitter
be suitable? The couple of tons of pressure might work well for small
briquets. Or how about a steel bracket to hold a hydraulic jack to ram
the slurry into a steel tube. Which would compress better, a short wide
diameter pipe or a longer more narrow pipe. I guess the less area
(small diameter), the more pressure per sq.

  #23   Report Post  
OldNick
 
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Default

On 14 Feb 2005 05:30:52 -0800, "WoodchuckCanuck"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

For compression, would a log splitter
be suitable? The couple of tons of pressure



Think mnore around 20 tonnes of pressure...
  #24   Report Post  
tiredofspam
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That's alot of pressure. But it sounds reasonable that under 3 tons
isn't going to do it. Wood really doesn't compress all that easily. So
is 20 absolutely necessary or is there somewhere in between. And how
thick would the casing have to be? Any idea?
I guess the casing can have some ears welded on so that the ears can
keep the tube off the press when trying to eject the compressed log.

OldNick wrote:

On 14 Feb 2005 05:30:52 -0800, "WoodchuckCanuck"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


For compression, would a log splitter
be suitable? The couple of tons of pressure




Think mnore around 20 tonnes of pressure...

  #25   Report Post  
OldNick
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:50:51 -0500, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Sorry. The 20 tonnes is the pressure exerted by many wood splitters. I
was not looking at what you needed. After I had posted a wondered if
that might happen.

If you can find a site that shows a machine that makes the logs, and
by some way work out the diameter of the hydro cylindr that does the
job, if it's a direct push, with no levers etc, then you can work out
what they use.

That's alot of pressure. But it sounds reasonable that under 3 tons
isn't going to do it. Wood really doesn't compress all that easily. So
is 20 absolutely necessary or is there somewhere in between. And how
thick would the casing have to be? Any idea?
I guess the casing can have some ears welded on so that the ears can
keep the tube off the press when trying to eject the compressed log.

OldNick wrote:

On 14 Feb 2005 05:30:52 -0800, "WoodchuckCanuck"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


For compression, would a log splitter
be suitable? The couple of tons of pressure




Think mnore around 20 tonnes of pressure...




  #26   Report Post  
Clint
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ok, here's the scoop, as much as I can pass on...

100psi pressure (they use a hydraulic cylinder). The base of the mould is
about 7"x7", so that's almost 5000 pounds of pressure
4 pounds of wax, shavings, "needles" (think toothpicks), and sawdust all
mixed together.
Approximately 40% wax. Regular candle wax or whatever should work fine.
That's what they were using originally, till they started buying in bulk

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Finally we are getting somewhere.
Is this a homemade system for the plant, or commercial?
If commercial what is the name of the maker?
Wax ... I would think wax would make a mess in the fireplace?

I am interested... seems to me that it is better than just carting the
load upstairs to be put out for trash... I imagine my collectors hate
getting a pile of dust in the face, I would like to reuse the stuff. I
sometimes feel like putting the dust in the fireplace but am afraid of the
flash from fine dust loosely thrown in.

Clint wrote:

My father recently helped set up a plant up here in Canada that turns
sawdust, wood chips, wax, and a little potato starch into molds, which
are then turned into trapasoidal fire logs. I can get some of the
details from him perhaps (like the ratios used), and find out what
pressure is required to form the logs. It's pretty basic stuff,
excluding the transport mechanisms required to churn them out at
reasonably high volume. FWIW, they get about 3 to 4 hours burn time from
a 3 pound log.

Clint

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...

I happened to be in the bookstore and thumbed thru a book on workshops...
I love to borrow ideas... I only found one.

In a large workshop they were compressing the DC's shavings and dust into
compressed fire logs...

Anyone in a small shop have one on a small scale, or know where to get
one?

Too bad Onieda doesn't link on that kind of tool from their website.
I am empyting about 35 gal drum per week and would like to inexpensively
compress them.




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