I have a Delta 10" Contractor Saw. I checked the blade with a dial gauge as
described in the January issue of American Woodworker and discovered that
the blade isn't parallel to the miter slot across it's length. The article
said check your owner's manual for trunion adjustment. Well I looked in the
manual and didn't see it. So how do you adjust the trunion?

As posted by Bob S. many, many moons ago...





...............................Alignment
Procedure..............................

Just thought I'd pass this along to those that have been
having difficulty
in aligning the blade parallel to the miter slot on these
particular
contractor saws. They may also apply to other Delta series
saws as long as
they have two tie-bars as part of the undercarriage.

I installed a new blade the other night and checked
alignment using my TS
Aligner Jr. and found that it was off by nearly 5
thousandths (front to
rear - using same tooth on blade as ref). Decided to align
and while doing
so, managed to snap a trunnion bolt !

Well, the saw was due for a good cleaning and lube anyway,
so I pulled out
the whole undercarriage mechanism. It was a fairly simple
process actually
and not nearly as difficult as I was anticipating. Luckily,
the bolt I
snapped was left with a few threads exposed and was easily
removed. There
is no printed spec for these bolts in their literature so I
called Delta
tech support and finally got connected with a very
knowledgeable and helpful
individual (Ron as I recall).

He said a grade 5 bolt (same size) will do - but add lock
washers to each of
the four trunnion bolts as long as I have it apart. These
will help
maintain the alignment. There also is no spec for how tight
these bolts
should be but "good 'n snug and not over-tightened" is all
that's needed he
said. The trunnion bolts are not marked with a grade number
and using a
grade 5 means that I probably will never be able to snap the
bolt again, it
will most likely strip out the threads in the base before it
breaks. So a
word of caution - tight enough is one turn before it strips
or snaps -
wherever that is !

Considering that I was using a 6" long 1/2" box wrench and
was not leaning
on it when it snapped, the original bolts are definitely not
grade 5.

Now for the interesting part. Delta faxed me a two sheet
procedure that
describes how to do this alignment. It's called "Blade
Alignment
Instructions for Original Contractors-Type Saws (when the
saw has two
Tie-Bars)". Pages are marked CS07 and CS07a and are not in
the manual. I've
included the instructions below but since binaries are not
appreciated in
this ng, I didn't scan the diagram.

Here's the procedure (minus diagram) as faxed to me: (unplug
the saw first)

I've added a note or two to help which are denoted by (My
note....).

........................................Delta
Procedures......................................

Initial Measurement:

1. Raise the sawblade to it's maximum height and mark one
tooth, at the
front of the blade as a reference.
2. Using a combination square, measure from the left edge of
the right-hand
miter gauge slot to the sawblade tooth that was marked in
step 1 (Note this
measurement). Then rotate the blade to the rear and measure
from the same
marked tooth to the miter slot. (Note this measurement).

IF the two measurements are NOT the same, proceed with step
3.

Note: refer to parts diagram on the following page for part
locations.

(My note...this is the step I never knew had to be done, nor
have I ever
heard anyone mention it before.)

3. Remove the sawblade. (Remember, it is still at it's
maximum height)
4. Place a flat plate (or similar flat object) on top of the
two tie-bars.
(The size of the plate should be at least 6" by 8", and the
flatter the
better). Depress one corner of the plate and if it rocks,
the tie-bars are
not parallel. This must be corrected as it will affect the
alignment of the
blade.

To make the Tie-Bars parallel:
5. Loosen the tie-bar locknuts (2ea. ref #245) located at
the rear of the
saw.
6. Grasp the motor bracket (ref #244) and move it left
and/or right. Check
the rocking of the flat plate and when it can no longer
rock, the tie-bars
are parallel...re-tighten the locknuts.

Aligning the saw undercarriage:
7. Remove the flat plate and re-install the sawblade.
8. Loosen the front trunnion bolts (2ea. ref #207) and the
rear trunnion
bolts (2ea. ref #243).
9. Move the entire undercarriage around while measuring as
in step 2.
10. When the two measurements are the same, re-tighten the
front two
trunnion bolts (ref #207).
11. Before tightening the rear trunnion bolts, push forward
on the rear
trunnion bracket to allow the undercarriage to snugly fit
between the two
trunnions.
12. Re-check the blade to miter slot measurement and if they
are still
equal, re-tighten the rear trunnion bolts (ref #243).
13. If the blade to miter slot measurements have changed,
repeat steps 8
thru 12.

..........................................End of Delta
Procedures..........................

Without a diagram to look at this may be confusing but I
suspect most of us
never thought about the tie-bar alignment steps 5 & 6. If
these are not
parallel to each other then you can tap / hammer / move /
and swear at it
until the cows come home and it will never align correctly.
Move the blade
(up / down) then recheck alignment and you will find that
you're out of
alignment again ! You must keep the trunnion brackets tight
to the rest of
the mechanism.

I'm off to find some grade 5 bolts, lockwashers and a flat
plate (glass
maybe if I can't find a steel plate of some sort). I'll be
reassembling and
aligning tonight. If I find a better or easier way, I'll
make a follow-up
post and let you know what I did.

If you try to contact Delta tech support, (800) 438-2486
you'll most likely
get a busy signal like I did for two days. Finally
contacted HQ at (901)
668-8600 and they paged tech support for me and he was on
the line in less
than a minute. Course I was nice to the sweet young thing
that answered the
call, told her I'd been trying for two days and could she
help - sure 'nuff
!

I'll ding Delta for not including these procedures in the
manual or at least
posting them on their web site but tech support (Ron) was
very helpful and
friendly. He also gave me a few tips on how to adjust the
blade height
(worm-gear) mechanism since mine is a bit to tight when
raising/lowering the
blade.

The worm-gear is pinned to a shaft that goes thru another
guide-shaft that
has an off-center hole bored thru it. By loosening the nut
near the
worm-gear end, the shaft (with the off-center bore) can be
rotated which
adjusts the gear meshing clearance between the worm-gear and
the gear-height
mechanism. Confusing explanation but when you look at the
mechanism, it
will be clear to you.

Hope all the above is useful to someone and provides a
better explanation on
why we're having problems when making the blade to miter
slot adjustment.

Bob S.


......................Follow-Up..............................................
.....................

Said I would follow-up if I had anything more to add to my
original post.

Just finished aligning the saw - the Delta procedures work
as advertised -
follow them exactly.

I know I'm being a bit anal over 5 thousandths but it was
more of a
curiosity of "why" it couldn't be adjusted out. No matter
what I had done
previously, it would come out close but never dead-on. Was
it me, or just
the machining tolerance ?

The problem was the adjustment of the tie-bars not being
parallel. I used
an 8" sanding disk (minus the sanding paper of course) as
the flat plate
they want you to use in the alignment procedure - see
original post above.
The lock nuts on the tie-bars are 15/16th's and they sure
are on there
tight. Had to use an 18" strong-arm bar to break them
loose. Did exactly as
the procedure called for and the alignment came out dead-on.
Surprised the
hell out of me too !

Now when you do the alignment (blade parallel to miter
slot), you truly can
loosen all 4 trunnion bolts (leave just slightly snug) and
move the
undercarriage around to make the adjustment. No more 2x4's
as levers and
whacking the hell out of the undercarriage to coax it into
alignment.
Simply tap (rubber mallet or use your fist if you like pain)
the
undercarriage and when front and back measurements are
equal, snug 'em up
good but don't over do it (as I did which has lead to this
whole diatribe).

Ran the blade up and down, changed blade angle, made some
saw dust and
remeasured - still dead-on ! Never even came close to
getting repeatable
measurements before this, so I'm a real happy camper.

May as well align the fence to the miter slot while you're
at it too. I
have the TS Aligner so it's easy and accurate but the
procedure in the
manual works well also.

Will it improve my cuts any - Yes ! Ripped a piece of maple
and no burn
marks at the end anymore. Could be the new Freud blade but
I tend to think
it was the alignment that made the difference.

Only addition to the procedure I would make is to be sure
the blade is at 90
deg to the table when doing the alignment which isn't stated
in their
procedures.

I did make a slight modification to the front trunnion bolts
that you may be
interested in doing to make life easier. If you ever tried
loosening /
tightening the front trunnion bolts then you know how
difficult it can be to
get to them - not to mention the skinned knuckles.

While I was at the nut's and bolts place looking for a
replacement bolt for
the one I snapped, I came across a bin of couplers, 2" long
which accept
5/16" thread.

Idea came to mind. Why not get a short section of threaded
rod (5/16th's)
and two couplers and make "extended stud bolts" for the
front trunnion ?
Bought a section of threaded rod, some inside star-washers
and some flat
washers.

I cut two sections of the threaded rod 2 5/8" long to for
the studs. I
wanted the threaded rod to go into the table as far as
possible (5/8") and
2" into the coupler to help stiffen the whole thing.

If you have the entire undercarriage out as I did, you need
to put the
undercarriage in-place first, then insert the stud bolts
(threaded rod
sections). If not, then simply replace the front bolts one
at a time with
the "extended studs". Put a flat washer and a star washer
on the stud and
run the couplers on up till they're good 'n snug.

Now it's a simple matter to use an open-end 1/2" wrench to
get at those
front trunnion bolts. No more fiddling with a socket and an
extension and
finding the bolt heads. You can now see them and get to
them easily.
Delta - ya listening ?

I was initially worried that the right front coupler would
interfere with
the blade tilt mechanism by using a 2" long coupler, there
is still plenty
of clearance and clears the trunnion by a good 1/2" or so
when the blade is
tilted the full 45 deg. The left coupler - no problems on
clearance.

As I mentioned in the original post, my blade height
adjustment was a bit to
tight compared to other saws I've tried. Adusted the
"off-center" shaft
about 1/8th of a turn and that blade now goes up and down
real nice and
smoothe. You'll know when the adjustment is right cause it
"just feels
right". You don't want it to loose or there will be to much
slack in the
gear mesh - just play with it a bit and you'll know what I
mean about
feeling right.

So ends the story... and on a happy note too. Now I can get
back to making
sawdust and stop playing mechanic. Have to make 3
double-hung windows for
my shed (the place where my lathe is going to be....8)

G'night all,

Bob S.

"Thomas" wrote in message
...
I have a Delta 10" Contractor Saw. I checked the blade with a dial gauge
as
described in the January issue of American Woodworker and discovered that
the blade isn't parallel to the miter slot across it's length. The article
said check your owner's manual for trunion adjustment. Well I looked in
the
manual and didn't see it. So how do you adjust the trunion?



Shopnotes #25, January 1996 is the best article I've seen. Pictures, even.

In addition, Preston Andreas contributed his experience on February 12, 2001
to this forum.

Just remember - don't smack cast iron with anything tougher'n wood!

Thanks,

Bob S.

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...
As posted by Bob S. many, many moons ago...

It's been posted a number of times but the very procedure
Bob S. references, is available at the Delta web site:

http://www.deltawoodworking.com/index.asp?e=144&p=462

As a follow up, I would strongly suggest another
valuable addition to anything else you get...
Look at a In-line Industries "PALS" system that is
an addition to the saw...

Here is an excellent write up of "how to do it" and
it includes a good desciption of the PALS system...

http://thewoodshop.20m.com/calibrate_sled1.htm

and

http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html

Take my word for it.... SPEND THE MONEY and get the
correct tools(PALS & TS-ALigner)... Been there.. done that
including breaking a bolt in the arbor assemble.

Thomas wrote:
I have a Delta 10" Contractor Saw. I checked the blade with a dial gauge as
described in the January issue of American Woodworker and discovered that
the blade isn't parallel to the miter slot across it's length. The article
said check your owner's manual for trunion adjustment. Well I looked in the
manual and didn't see it. So how do you adjust the trunion?

The PALS do not fix the problem - the allow you to force an adjustment.
There's a reason you can't align it - fix that first.

Bob S.


"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
It's been posted a number of times but the very procedure
Bob S. references, is available at the Delta web site:

http://www.deltawoodworking.com/index.asp?e=144&p=462

As a follow up, I would strongly suggest another
valuable addition to anything else you get...
Look at a In-line Industries "PALS" system that is
an addition to the saw...

Here is an excellent write up of "how to do it" and
it includes a good desciption of the PALS system...

http://thewoodshop.20m.com/calibrate_sled1.htm

and

http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html

Take my word for it.... SPEND THE MONEY and get the
correct tools(PALS & TS-ALigner)... Been there.. done that
including breaking a bolt in the arbor assemble.

Thomas wrote:
I have a Delta 10" Contractor Saw. I checked the blade with a dial gauge
as
described in the January issue of American Woodworker and discovered
that
the blade isn't parallel to the miter slot across it's length. The
article
said check your owner's manual for trunion adjustment. Well I looked in
the
manual and didn't see it. So how do you adjust the trunion?

You lost me there Bob...

If you follow Delta's instructions AND use the PALS,
which makes the final adjustment MUCH easier.

I have used the Delta instructions and they will
"work" eventually, but it's much more difficult
by NOT using the PALS "doo-hickey"...

What is the "fix" for "can't align it" ????

BobS wrote:

The PALS do not fix the problem - the allow you to force an adjustment.
There's a reason you can't align it - fix that first.

Ok, what are Tie Bars??

Unisaw A100 wrote:
As posted by Bob S. many, many moons ago...





..............................Alignment
Procedure..............................

Just thought I'd pass this along to those that have been
having difficulty
in aligning the blade parallel to the miter slot on these
particular
contractor saws. They may also apply to other Delta series
saws as long as
they have two tie-bars as part of the undercarriage.

I installed a new blade the other night and checked
alignment using my TS
Aligner Jr. and found that it was off by nearly 5
thousandths (front to
rear - using same tooth on blade as ref). Decided to align
and while doing
so, managed to snap a trunnion bolt !

Well, the saw was due for a good cleaning and lube anyway,
so I pulled out
the whole undercarriage mechanism. It was a fairly simple
process actually
and not nearly as difficult as I was anticipating. Luckily,
the bolt I
snapped was left with a few threads exposed and was easily
removed. There
is no printed spec for these bolts in their literature so I
called Delta
tech support and finally got connected with a very
knowledgeable and helpful
individual (Ron as I recall).

He said a grade 5 bolt (same size) will do - but add lock
washers to each of
the four trunnion bolts as long as I have it apart. These
will help
maintain the alignment. There also is no spec for how tight
these bolts
should be but "good 'n snug and not over-tightened" is all
that's needed he
said. The trunnion bolts are not marked with a grade number
and using a
grade 5 means that I probably will never be able to snap the
bolt again, it
will most likely strip out the threads in the base before it
breaks. So a
word of caution - tight enough is one turn before it strips
or snaps -
wherever that is !

Considering that I was using a 6" long 1/2" box wrench and
was not leaning
on it when it snapped, the original bolts are definitely not
grade 5.

Now for the interesting part. Delta faxed me a two sheet
procedure that
describes how to do this alignment. It's called "Blade
Alignment
Instructions for Original Contractors-Type Saws (when the
saw has two
Tie-Bars)". Pages are marked CS07 and CS07a and are not in
the manual. I've
included the instructions below but since binaries are not
appreciated in
this ng, I didn't scan the diagram.

Here's the procedure (minus diagram) as faxed to me: (unplug
the saw first)

I've added a note or two to help which are denoted by (My
note....).

.......................................Delta
Procedures......................................

Initial Measurement:

1. Raise the sawblade to it's maximum height and mark one
tooth, at the
front of the blade as a reference.
2. Using a combination square, measure from the left edge of
the right-hand
miter gauge slot to the sawblade tooth that was marked in
step 1 (Note this
measurement). Then rotate the blade to the rear and measure
from the same
marked tooth to the miter slot. (Note this measurement).

IF the two measurements are NOT the same, proceed with step
3.

Note: refer to parts diagram on the following page for part
locations.

(My note...this is the step I never knew had to be done, nor
have I ever
heard anyone mention it before.)

3. Remove the sawblade. (Remember, it is still at it's
maximum height)
4. Place a flat plate (or similar flat object) on top of the
two tie-bars.
(The size of the plate should be at least 6" by 8", and the
flatter the
better). Depress one corner of the plate and if it rocks,
the tie-bars are
not parallel. This must be corrected as it will affect the
alignment of the
blade.

To make the Tie-Bars parallel:
5. Loosen the tie-bar locknuts (2ea. ref #245) located at
the rear of the
saw.
6. Grasp the motor bracket (ref #244) and move it left
and/or right. Check
the rocking of the flat plate and when it can no longer
rock, the tie-bars
are parallel...re-tighten the locknuts.

Aligning the saw undercarriage:
7. Remove the flat plate and re-install the sawblade.
8. Loosen the front trunnion bolts (2ea. ref #207) and the
rear trunnion
bolts (2ea. ref #243).
9. Move the entire undercarriage around while measuring as
in step 2.
10. When the two measurements are the same, re-tighten the
front two
trunnion bolts (ref #207).
11. Before tightening the rear trunnion bolts, push forward
on the rear
trunnion bracket to allow the undercarriage to snugly fit
between the two
trunnions.
12. Re-check the blade to miter slot measurement and if they
are still
equal, re-tighten the rear trunnion bolts (ref #243).
13. If the blade to miter slot measurements have changed,
repeat steps 8
thru 12.

.........................................End of Delta
Procedures..........................

Without a diagram to look at this may be confusing but I
suspect most of us
never thought about the tie-bar alignment steps 5 & 6. If
these are not
parallel to each other then you can tap / hammer / move /
and swear at it
until the cows come home and it will never align correctly.
Move the blade
(up / down) then recheck alignment and you will find that
you're out of
alignment again ! You must keep the trunnion brackets tight
to the rest of
the mechanism.

I'm off to find some grade 5 bolts, lockwashers and a flat
plate (glass
maybe if I can't find a steel plate of some sort). I'll be
reassembling and
aligning tonight. If I find a better or easier way, I'll
make a follow-up
post and let you know what I did.

If you try to contact Delta tech support, (800) 438-2486
you'll most likely
get a busy signal like I did for two days. Finally
contacted HQ at (901)
668-8600 and they paged tech support for me and he was on
the line in less
than a minute. Course I was nice to the sweet young thing
that answered the
call, told her I'd been trying for two days and could she
help - sure 'nuff
!

I'll ding Delta for not including these procedures in the
manual or at least
posting them on their web site but tech support (Ron) was
very helpful and
friendly. He also gave me a few tips on how to adjust the
blade height
(worm-gear) mechanism since mine is a bit to tight when
raising/lowering the
blade.

The worm-gear is pinned to a shaft that goes thru another
guide-shaft that
has an off-center hole bored thru it. By loosening the nut
near the
worm-gear end, the shaft (with the off-center bore) can be
rotated which
adjusts the gear meshing clearance between the worm-gear and
the gear-height
mechanism. Confusing explanation but when you look at the
mechanism, it
will be clear to you.

Hope all the above is useful to someone and provides a
better explanation on
why we're having problems when making the blade to miter
slot adjustment.

Bob S.


.....................Follow-Up..............................................
....................

Said I would follow-up if I had anything more to add to my
original post.

Just finished aligning the saw - the Delta procedures work
as advertised -
follow them exactly.

I know I'm being a bit anal over 5 thousandths but it was
more of a
curiosity of "why" it couldn't be adjusted out. No matter
what I had done
previously, it would come out close but never dead-on. Was
it me, or just
the machining tolerance ?

The problem was the adjustment of the tie-bars not being
parallel. I used
an 8" sanding disk (minus the sanding paper of course) as
the flat plate
they want you to use in the alignment procedure - see
original post above.
The lock nuts on the tie-bars are 15/16th's and they sure
are on there
tight. Had to use an 18" strong-arm bar to break them
loose. Did exactly as
the procedure called for and the alignment came out dead-on.
Surprised the
hell out of me too !

Now when you do the alignment (blade parallel to miter
slot), you truly can
loosen all 4 trunnion bolts (leave just slightly snug) and
move the
undercarriage around to make the adjustment. No more 2x4's
as levers and
whacking the hell out of the undercarriage to coax it into
alignment.
Simply tap (rubber mallet or use your fist if you like pain)
the
undercarriage and when front and back measurements are
equal, snug 'em up
good but don't over do it (as I did which has lead to this
whole diatribe).

Ran the blade up and down, changed blade angle, made some
saw dust and
remeasured - still dead-on ! Never even came close to
getting repeatable
measurements before this, so I'm a real happy camper.

May as well align the fence to the miter slot while you're
at it too. I
have the TS Aligner so it's easy and accurate but the
procedure in the
manual works well also.

Will it improve my cuts any - Yes ! Ripped a piece of maple
and no burn
marks at the end anymore. Could be the new Freud blade but
I tend to think
it was the alignment that made the difference.

Only addition to the procedure I would make is to be sure
the blade is at 90
deg to the table when doing the alignment which isn't stated
in their
procedures.

I did make a slight modification to the front trunnion bolts
that you may be
interested in doing to make life easier. If you ever tried
loosening /
tightening the front trunnion bolts then you know how
difficult it can be to
get to them - not to mention the skinned knuckles.

While I was at the nut's and bolts place looking for a
replacement bolt for
the one I snapped, I came across a bin of couplers, 2" long
which accept
5/16" thread.

Idea came to mind. Why not get a short section of threaded
rod (5/16th's)
and two couplers and make "extended stud bolts" for the
front trunnion ?
Bought a section of threaded rod, some inside star-washers
and some flat
washers.

I cut two sections of the threaded rod 2 5/8" long to for
the studs. I
wanted the threaded rod to go into the table as far as
possible (5/8") and
2" into the coupler to help stiffen the whole thing.

If you have the entire undercarriage out as I did, you need
to put the
undercarriage in-place first, then insert the stud bolts
(threaded rod
sections). If not, then simply replace the front bolts one
at a time with
the "extended studs". Put a flat washer and a star washer
on the stud and
run the couplers on up till they're good 'n snug.

Now it's a simple matter to use an open-end 1/2" wrench to
get at those
front trunnion bolts. No more fiddling with a socket and an
extension and
finding the bolt heads. You can now see them and get to
them easily.
Delta - ya listening ?

I was initially worried that the right front coupler would
interfere with
the blade tilt mechanism by using a 2" long coupler, there
is still plenty
of clearance and clears the trunnion by a good 1/2" or so
when the blade is
tilted the full 45 deg. The left coupler - no problems on
clearance.

As I mentioned in the original post, my blade height
adjustment was a bit to
tight compared to other saws I've tried. Adusted the
"off-center" shaft
about 1/8th of a turn and that blade now goes up and down
real nice and
smoothe. You'll know when the adjustment is right cause it
"just feels
right". You don't want it to loose or there will be to much
slack in the
gear mesh - just play with it a bit and you'll know what I
mean about
feeling right.

So ends the story... and on a happy note too. Now I can get
back to making
sawdust and stop playing mechanic. Have to make 3
double-hung windows for
my shed (the place where my lathe is going to be....8)

G'night all,

Bob S.

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Ok, what are Tie Bars??

Those two bars that tie the motor mount to trunnion.

http://www.acetoolrepair.com/DeltaHt...eSaws/CS4L.htm Number 143

Pat,

The reason the PALS were born is to "hold" one side of a trunnion in-place
while the other side is being adjusted. Yes - they do help make things
easier but they also allow the undercarriage to be slightly warped when
forcing the adjustments. The tie-bars need to be parallel. I have yet to
see an alignment done with PALS that did not force the tie-bars out of
alignment. The blade may be parallel with the miter slot (assuming it was
aligned while at 90°) but most likely will not be when at some bevel setting
other than 90°. A good test is to make about a 15° bevel cut at max depth
thru a piece of hardwood and see if you get any burning. A properly aligned
saw with a good blade will not burn.

With the tie-bars adjusted for parallel and with the lands and trunnions
flat and all at the same height there is no need to "warp, twist, bend or
otherwise distort" the undercarriage into alignment. If you have the PALS -
go check the tie-bars for being parallel. If a flat plate does not lay flat
across them as per the instructions - then something is still out of
alignment.

If you can't get an alignment done without the use of force or by using
PALS - does it not make sense that something is not right and should be
fixed? It is not a big job to flip that saw over and to remove the
undercarriage in order to make some measurements and tweak as needed so the
saw will align without force.

I'm sure we have all seen the numerous posts about getting a CS aligned and
all read the "Get a bigger hammer" or "Get a set of PALS" replies. Why not
fix the problem the right way the first time and not have to go thru all the
hassle time and again. The tablesaws don't come from Delta in perfect
alignment and there's a lot of slop in the way they were built. With a bit
of tweaking you can fix what they didn't do at the factory.

Bob S.



"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
You lost me there Bob...

If you follow Delta's instructions AND use the PALS,
which makes the final adjustment MUCH easier.

I have used the Delta instructions and they will
"work" eventually, but it's much more difficult
by NOT using the PALS "doo-hickey"...

What is the "fix" for "can't align it" ????

BobS wrote:

The PALS do not fix the problem - the allow you to force an adjustment.
There's a reason you can't align it - fix that first.

NOV'03 Issue of Magazine uses a Delta Contractor saw
in their article and gives photo of adjusting to get balde
and miter slot parallel. Under photo it gives this procedu

"In most cases, each of the two trunnions on a contractor's tablesaw
is held in place w/ two bolts. Working thru the back side of the saw,
loosen both of the bolts on the rear trunnion, and one bolt on the
front trunnion. Leave the fourth bolt snug to serve as a pivot point.
Place a piece of scrap (wood) against the rear trunnion, and tap it
w/ a mallet. Recheck the blade/table alignment. If it is good,
tighten the rear trunnion bolt that's diagonal from the pivot bolt. If
the alignment is still good, tighten the remaining bolts."

I used this procedure to align my Delta Contractor's saw and
it eliminated a burning problem I was having. Hope this helps.

Joey in Chesapeake


"Thomas" wrote in message
...
I have a Delta 10" Contractor Saw. I checked the blade with a dial gauge as
described in the January issue of American Woodworker and discovered that
the blade isn't parallel to the miter slot across it's length. The article
said check your owner's manual for trunion adjustment. Well I looked in the
manual and didn't see it. So how do you adjust the trunion?

Read this for a better explanation about tie-bars being parallel. While
this is about a Unisaw, it's applicable to the "why" behind the alignment.

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/r...es_111.sh tml

Bob S.

tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote:
Ok, what are Tie Bars??

Go here.

http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=563

Go to the third picture.

See the rusted round horizontal thingie (tm Claire, age 10)
about two thirds up the picture?

That's one. The other is paired up opposite hand from it
(behind it in the picture). That's the back bone of the
contractor's saw undercarriage.

UA100, who continues to fight the good fight that the
cabinet saw's cabinet hung trunnions are inferior to the
contractor's saw's table hung trunnions...

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:49:36 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote:
Ok, what are Tie Bars??

Go here.

http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=563

Go to the third picture.

See the rusted round horizontal thingie (tm Claire, age 10)
about two thirds up the picture?

That's one. The other is paired up opposite hand from it
(behind it in the picture). That's the back bone of the
contractor's saw undercarriage.

UA100, who continues to fight the good fight that the
cabinet saw's cabinet hung trunnions are inferior to the
contractor's saw's table hung trunnions...


that's a funny stance for a guy with a name like unisawa100....

so how do you figure? cabinet saw trunnions are generally beefier,
easier to adjust and don't rely on gravity to tension the belt, for a
few things. what is it that you see in a contractor's saw that looks
better?

I agree with you up to a point... Following the Delta
instructions to the letter(which I do/did) does allow
you to "get it straight", but I also think that the
ideas behind the PALS is still a good way to make the
"final" setting.

You know yourself that when you get the tie bars correct
and begin the process of getting everthing back to "tight",
that a slight move of the nut and everything is "out of whack"
again. I don't quite believe that the PALS screws can exert
enough pressure on the trunnion assembly to "distort" it.


Many people a lot smarter than me have stated on a number
of occasions in articles that it is "almost" impossible to
get and keep a contractor in perfect alignment. The design
doesn't lend itself to mechanical perfection in adjustment.

But that's just me...

Pat,

Try adjusting the tie-bars with the trunnion bolts just snugged up to hold
things in-place, then after they're tight - now align the undercarriage to
make the blade parallel with the miter slot.

Have you checked your tie-bars to see if they are parallel and a flat plate
does not wobble when pressure is applied on one side then the other?

Bob S.


"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
I agree with you up to a point... Following the Delta
instructions to the letter(which I do/did) does allow
you to "get it straight", but I also think that the
ideas behind the PALS is still a good way to make the
"final" setting.

You know yourself that when you get the tie bars correct
and begin the process of getting everthing back to "tight",
that a slight move of the nut and everything is "out of whack"
again. I don't quite believe that the PALS screws can exert
enough pressure on the trunnion assembly to "distort" it.


Many people a lot smarter than me have stated on a number
of occasions in articles that it is "almost" impossible to
get and keep a contractor in perfect alignment. The design
doesn't lend itself to mechanical perfection in adjustment.

But that's just me...

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
I agree with you up to a point... Following the Delta
instructions to the letter(which I do/did) does allow
you to "get it straight", but I also think that the
ideas behind the PALS is still a good way to make the
"final" setting.

You know yourself that when you get the tie bars correct
and begin the process of getting everthing back to "tight",
that a slight move of the nut and everything is "out of whack"
again. I don't quite believe that the PALS screws can exert
enough pressure on the trunnion assembly to "distort" it.

I think Bob's point, and one that I endorse is that the PALS mask the
problem and don't necessarily offer an elegant solution to the real problem.
The underlying problem is that the surfaces that the bolt heads engage on
the trunion is not machined and irregularities in it is what causes the
slight shift as you tighten down the bolt. It is better to file the trunion
down a bit to flatten out that seat than it is to force it in any way. It
only takes a very minor amount of work to properly fix the issue instead of
working around it. Probably no more work than installing the PALS in the
first place.



Many people a lot smarter than me have stated on a number
of occasions in articles that it is "almost" impossible to
get and keep a contractor in perfect alignment. The design
doesn't lend itself to mechanical perfection in adjustment.

I'd disagree with this conclusion completely. No one says it's nearly
impossible to get and keep a contractor's saw in alignment. We do say that
it takes a certain dedication to performing the task properly the first time
and not settling for "close enough", but it is typically characterized as a
very do-able job. Most here have done it to their saws and encourage others
to do it on a regular basis. Likewise, no one says that it is impossible or
even nearly impossible to keep a contractor's saw in tune. To the contrary,
if done properly the first time it is unlikely you will have to make those
adjustments again for a very, very long time. That's more reason to fix the
underlying issues with a given saw and not jump to things like PALS. Once
you get your trunions lined up and locked down there is no reason to expect
them to move under normal use. The design certainly does lend itself to
near perfect alignment. Most of us here have our saws - both cabinet saws
and contractor saws, aligned to less than .005in. Many of us have them
aligned to .001in. This is very achievable.

Don't let what is really a fairly easy task overwhelm you. You can get your
saw aligned properly and it really won't take you a lot of work. You'll be
hugely rewarded for your efforts the first time you fire it up and cut
something and that reward will stay with you for a long time.


But that's just me...


Nah - we all felt that way before we dug in and did it on our saws. After
we did we miraculously became pinnacles of wisdom and oracles of
encouragement.

--

-Mike-

Bruce Barnett wrote:
Hmm. I have a Rockwell 34-300 10" Tilting Arbor Saw (from the fifties?)
I don't see any Tie Bars.

That's onna 'count of it's a direct drive. In lieu of the
tie bars you've got a motor hung there.

I have some questions.

Is there any different procedure for this type of saw?
Is it written up anywhere?

The procedure is the same as long as and up to the part
where you loosen four cap screws, adjust and re-tighten the
four cap screws. Beyond that what Bob S. has written (tie
bars) won't be of much use to you. That is not to say that
the twisting could be an issue with your saw, just that the
fix isn't the same.

Will the PALS add-on be compatible? (I realise there is not uniform
agreement on the usefullness).

Kinda not sure. Technically you have table hung trunnions
and technically the PALS work with table hung trunnions. I
suspect a call to PALS would be in order but I would not
expect much as I doubt they have gone as far as tracking
down a 34-300 to check.

As for the vintage of the saw, I'm guessing something closer
to the mid-70's/early 80's otherwise it would say Delta
somewheres on it.

UA100

No folks that is definately not

EL Guapo!!!!

I'm sorry but it's true.


"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...
tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote:
Ok, what are Tie Bars??

Go here.

http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=563

Go to the third picture.

See the rusted round horizontal thingie (tm Claire, age 10)
about two thirds up the picture?

That's one. The other is paired up opposite hand from it
(behind it in the picture). That's the back bone of the
contractor's saw undercarriage.

UA100, who continues to fight the good fight that the
cabinet saw's cabinet hung trunnions are inferior to the
contractor's saw's table hung trunnions...

Bruce Barnett wrote:
It says "Rockwell/Delta" does on the metal strip running under the
brade raising/tilting dial.

Ahhh! Ya didn't mention that.

Serial # EB-4410, Model 34-300

1968 born on date per the serial number.

I called Delta, but they are closed for the weekend.

As they should be.

UA100

Ahhhh. the other side benefit of getting your CS aligned...


Mike Marlow wrote:
Nah - we all felt that way before we dug in and
did it on our saws. After we did we miraculously
became pinnacles of wisdom and oracles of
encouragement.