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  #1   Report Post  
Mark Howell
 
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Default Alternatives for fence faces?

I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?

Mark H.


  #2   Report Post  
 
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 04:33:02 GMT, "Mark Howell"
wrote:

I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?

Mark H.



the baltic birch ply faced with high pressure laminate on my
biesemeyer seems to be ok....
  #3   Report Post  
George
 
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"Mark Howell" wrote in message
news:2_jJd.21502$1l2.8925@trndny05...
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?


Leftover pieces of that Pergo-like flooring work for me.


  #4   Report Post  
Mark Howell
 
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wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 04:33:02 GMT, "Mark Howell"
wrote:

I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?

Mark H.



the baltic birch ply faced with high pressure laminate on my
biesemeyer seems to be ok....


So *thats* what the Biesemeyer faces are made of. I didn't
know that. Perhaps I could buy replacements and try to
retrofit the slide-on clips that mount these uhmw faces.

Thanks,
Mark


  #5   Report Post  
Upscale
 
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"Mark Howell" wrote in message
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any suggestions?


What kind of problems are you having with the UHMW faces?




  #6   Report Post  
Mark Howell
 
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Default


"George" george@least wrote in message
...

"Mark Howell" wrote in message
news:2_jJd.21502$1l2.8925@trndny05...
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?


Leftover pieces of that Pergo-like flooring work for me.


Interesting. I took a look at some that I had in the attic, I
don't think they have enough thickness to mount the clips
that I have to use for this fence. Maybe if I glue two of
them together?

Thanks,
Mark


  #7   Report Post  
Mark Howell
 
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"Upscale" wrote in message
...
"Mark Howell" wrote in message
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any suggestions?


What kind of problems are you having with the UHMW faces?


Too much distortion when mounted. They're dead flat off the
fence, but when mounted they flex too much. The 4 clips pull
the face to the fence, and between the clips the stuff bows
outward.


  #8   Report Post  
TeamCasa
 
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I like hard rock maple, waxed.

Dave

"Mark Howell" wrote in message
news:2_jJd.21502$1l2.8925@trndny05...
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?

Mark H.





Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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  #9   Report Post  
Rob Mitchell
 
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Mark Howell wrote:
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?

Mark H.


How about MDF covered with a good quality laminate? Stiff, square,
cheap, durable, and easily replaced.

UHMW is a particularly bad choice by the manufacturer because as you
note later, if tends to flow. Your existing UHMW glued to a base of MDF
for stiffness might give you the best of both worlds.

I have a General 650. The sacrificial fences that are attached to the
steel fence are really cheapo. (The fence itself is great) I'd like to
replace them, but I can't figure out how to get them off, short of using
a wrecking bar.

Mark, how do your fences come off?

  #10   Report Post  
BobS
 
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Default

Mark,

Do away with the clips, drill and countersink (for screw size you're using)
and drill about 6, 1/8" dia holes down the center of the fence and use some
self threading screws to mount the UHMW. If the UHMW is truly flat then just
go ahead with the procedures below if you want to use this method. If the
UHMW is not flat and the faces parallel, then mill it flat. It will go thru
your planer just fine. I used an MDF carrier when I milled my Jet Xacta
fence faces flat. I now have less a .001" variance the full length of my
fence after doing this.

The trick is in the details - as always. Once you drill the countersinks
and the initial 1/8" holes in the UHMW, place it against the fence using
some shims along the bottom edge to maintain table clearance evenly. I
placed some double back tape on mine then once aligned, pressed it into
place to hold it while I marked the holes. Use a exact fitting center punch
to accurately mark the holes onto the metal portion of the fence. Remove
the UHMW and the tape.

Drill the correct size hole in the fence for whatever self-tapping screws
you're using (#8's are good). On the UHMW, elongate each hole evenly, left
and right of the center of the 1/8" holes you drilled in the UHMW. When
mounting the UHMW, start from the center and work towards the ends
alternating tightening each screw left and right of center. The
countersinks should be deep and large enough so the screw head is beneath
the surface of the UHMW and large enough so the screw can take advantage of
the elongated hole if it needs to in order to adjust flat to the fence.

Your metal fence may not be as flat as you think and you may end up with a
valley or two along the length. I use the Aligner Jr. to check mine. If
you find a low spot, simply loosen to two screws either side and place a
paper shim(s) as needed that are about the length of the distance between
the two screws and the height of the fence. Slowly tighten down the screws
to just snug enough to hold the fence face securely - no need for any wrist
breaking torque here. Measure and adjust and shim as needed.

Did mine over two years ago and it's still good today.

Bob S.


"Mark Howell" wrote in message
news:2_jJd.21502$1l2.8925@trndny05...
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?

Mark H.






  #11   Report Post  
Roger Shoaf
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This sounds like a good idea but for the self tapping screws. It has been
my experience that when you cram a big screw in little hole you always
displace some of the metal toward the item being screwed.

I would drill straight through the fence if there is no mechanism the way,
and use a sex bolt and machine screw. If you counter bore the poly for the
sex bolt you can make the head flush, or just a little lower than flush.

If there is a conflict with something the fence, you could drill and tap the
fence and use a machine screw. This could be done with a flat head machine
screw if the poly is countersunk for the screw head.

If you use the flat head screw you need to be careful about how tight you
torque the screw. Too tight and you might displace the poly and or suck out
the threads in the fence if the wall section is real thin.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"BobS" wrote in message
...
Mark,

Do away with the clips, drill and countersink (for screw size you're

using)
and drill about 6, 1/8" dia holes down the center of the fence and use

some
self threading screws to mount the UHMW. If the UHMW is truly flat then

just
go ahead with the procedures below if you want to use this method. If the
UHMW is not flat and the faces parallel, then mill it flat. It will go

thru
your planer just fine. I used an MDF carrier when I milled my Jet Xacta
fence faces flat. I now have less a .001" variance the full length of my
fence after doing this.

The trick is in the details - as always. Once you drill the countersinks
and the initial 1/8" holes in the UHMW, place it against the fence using
some shims along the bottom edge to maintain table clearance evenly. I
placed some double back tape on mine then once aligned, pressed it into
place to hold it while I marked the holes. Use a exact fitting center

punch
to accurately mark the holes onto the metal portion of the fence. Remove
the UHMW and the tape.

Drill the correct size hole in the fence for whatever self-tapping screws
you're using (#8's are good). On the UHMW, elongate each hole evenly,

left
and right of the center of the 1/8" holes you drilled in the UHMW. When
mounting the UHMW, start from the center and work towards the ends
alternating tightening each screw left and right of center. The
countersinks should be deep and large enough so the screw head is beneath
the surface of the UHMW and large enough so the screw can take advantage

of
the elongated hole if it needs to in order to adjust flat to the fence.

Your metal fence may not be as flat as you think and you may end up with a
valley or two along the length. I use the Aligner Jr. to check mine. If
you find a low spot, simply loosen to two screws either side and place a
paper shim(s) as needed that are about the length of the distance between
the two screws and the height of the fence. Slowly tighten down the

screws
to just snug enough to hold the fence face securely - no need for any

wrist
breaking torque here. Measure and adjust and shim as needed.

Did mine over two years ago and it's still good today.

Bob S.


"Mark Howell" wrote in message
news:2_jJd.21502$1l2.8925@trndny05...
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?

Mark H.






  #12   Report Post  
Mark Howell
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"BobS" wrote in message
...
Mark,

Do away with the clips, drill and countersink (for screw size you're

using)
and drill about 6, 1/8" dia holes down the center of the fence and use

some
self threading screws to mount the UHMW. If the UHMW is truly flat then

just
go ahead with the procedures below if you want to use this method. If the
UHMW is not flat and the faces parallel, then mill it flat. It will go

thru
your planer just fine. I used an MDF carrier when I milled my Jet Xacta
fence faces flat. I now have less a .001" variance the full length of my
fence after doing this.

Wow, now *that's* flat.

The trick is in the details - as always. Once you drill the countersinks
and the initial 1/8" holes in the UHMW, place it against the fence using
some shims along the bottom edge to maintain table clearance evenly. I
placed some double back tape on mine then once aligned, pressed it into
place to hold it while I marked the holes. Use a exact fitting center

punch
to accurately mark the holes onto the metal portion of the fence. Remove
the UHMW and the tape.

Drill the correct size hole in the fence for whatever self-tapping screws
you're using (#8's are good). On the UHMW, elongate each hole evenly,

left
and right of the center of the 1/8" holes you drilled in the UHMW. When
mounting the UHMW, start from the center and work towards the ends
alternating tightening each screw left and right of center. The
countersinks should be deep and large enough so the screw head is beneath
the surface of the UHMW and large enough so the screw can take advantage

of
the elongated hole if it needs to in order to adjust flat to the fence.

Wait, just remove the clips and leave the original screws in there?

Your metal fence may not be as flat as you think and you may end up with a
valley or two along the length. I use the Aligner Jr. to check mine. If
you find a low spot, simply loosen to two screws either side and place a
paper shim(s) as needed that are about the length of the distance between
the two screws and the height of the fence. Slowly tighten down the

screws
to just snug enough to hold the fence face securely - no need for any

wrist
breaking torque here. Measure and adjust and shim as needed.

You're right, the metal fence isn't flat, I get deviations near the screw
bosses. They're all pulled out slightly. I could probably clamp them
back to flush again.

Did mine over two years ago and it's still good today.

This is great, I'll try this, since I wanted to scrap 'em anyway.
BTW, it's the same fence ( JTAS-10XL)
Thanks!

Bob S.


"Mark Howell" wrote in message
news:2_jJd.21502$1l2.8925@trndny05...
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?

Mark H.






  #13   Report Post  
BobS
 
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Default

Roger,

Good point but this is heavy gauge metal and the screw did very little
distorting - if any on mine. Not enough to affect it at any rate. But
should it happen, he could also do a small countersink on the back side
(Forstner bit) say a 1/16" to cover that possibility. The UHMW is about 1/2"
thick (or maybe a bit more) so there's room to play.

Good idea about using machine screws but there is only one open end on the
fence and it would be a bit of a trick putting a nut on the end of a stick
to reach the machine screws and get them on. Not that it can't be
done...just a b*tch doing it is all.

My fence came with self-taping screws holding the sides on. I added extra's,
milled the UHMW and then shimmed it as necessary so my fence faces really
are within .001" from end to end.

Bob S.

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...
This sounds like a good idea but for the self tapping screws. It has been
my experience that when you cram a big screw in little hole you always
displace some of the metal toward the item being screwed.

I would drill straight through the fence if there is no mechanism the way,
and use a sex bolt and machine screw. If you counter bore the poly for

the
sex bolt you can make the head flush, or just a little lower than flush.

If there is a conflict with something the fence, you could drill and tap

the
fence and use a machine screw. This could be done with a flat head

machine
screw if the poly is countersunk for the screw head.

If you use the flat head screw you need to be careful about how tight you
torque the screw. Too tight and you might displace the poly and or suck

out
the threads in the fence if the wall section is real thin.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube,

then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"BobS" wrote in message
...
Mark,

Do away with the clips, drill and countersink (for screw size you're

using)
and drill about 6, 1/8" dia holes down the center of the fence and use

some
self threading screws to mount the UHMW. If the UHMW is truly flat then

just
go ahead with the procedures below if you want to use this method. If

the
UHMW is not flat and the faces parallel, then mill it flat. It will go

thru
your planer just fine. I used an MDF carrier when I milled my Jet Xacta
fence faces flat. I now have less a .001" variance the full length of

my
fence after doing this.

The trick is in the details - as always. Once you drill the

countersinks
and the initial 1/8" holes in the UHMW, place it against the fence using
some shims along the bottom edge to maintain table clearance evenly. I
placed some double back tape on mine then once aligned, pressed it into
place to hold it while I marked the holes. Use a exact fitting center

punch
to accurately mark the holes onto the metal portion of the fence.

Remove
the UHMW and the tape.

Drill the correct size hole in the fence for whatever self-tapping

screws
you're using (#8's are good). On the UHMW, elongate each hole evenly,

left
and right of the center of the 1/8" holes you drilled in the UHMW. When
mounting the UHMW, start from the center and work towards the ends
alternating tightening each screw left and right of center. The
countersinks should be deep and large enough so the screw head is

beneath
the surface of the UHMW and large enough so the screw can take advantage

of
the elongated hole if it needs to in order to adjust flat to the fence.

Your metal fence may not be as flat as you think and you may end up with

a
valley or two along the length. I use the Aligner Jr. to check mine.

If
you find a low spot, simply loosen to two screws either side and place a
paper shim(s) as needed that are about the length of the distance

between
the two screws and the height of the fence. Slowly tighten down the

screws
to just snug enough to hold the fence face securely - no need for any

wrist
breaking torque here. Measure and adjust and shim as needed.

Did mine over two years ago and it's still good today.

Bob S.


"Mark Howell" wrote in message
news:2_jJd.21502$1l2.8925@trndny05...
I'd like to replace the horrible UHMW faces on my
table saw fence with something better. Any
suggestions?

Mark H.








  #14   Report Post  
BobS
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mark,



Wait, just remove the clips and leave the original screws in there?


My fence didn't have clips (Xacta 52") just 4 screws and it was about as
flat as the rolling hills of Virginia...
I can't answer that for you but if the screws that are there will work out
spacing wise, then use them. Otherwise you want nearly even spacing on the
screws.


You're right, the metal fence isn't flat, I get deviations near the screw
bosses. They're all pulled out slightly. I could probably clamp them
back to flush again.


You may find that a ball-peen hammer will do more good than trying to use
clamps. Just enough force to tap it back flat and that will not distort the
rest of the fence.


Bob S.


  #15   Report Post  
Mark Howell
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"BobS" wrote in message
...
Mark,



Wait, just remove the clips and leave the original screws in there?


My fence didn't have clips (Xacta 52") just 4 screws and it was about as
flat as the rolling hills of Virginia...
I can't answer that for you but if the screws that are there will work out
spacing wise, then use them. Otherwise you want nearly even spacing on the
screws.

Maybe I'm using the wrong term for the "clips" , but my fence is an Xacta II
52", and the clips are mounted to the uhmw faces with 2 screws. The 4 screws
protruding from the fence slide into these clips. I posted a couple of pics
in
ABPW for clarity. I thought the screws in the fence were pressed in, but as
it
turns out there is so much paint on these screws that a phillips screwdriver
would not budge them. I got one out with a pair of vise-grips.


You're right, the metal fence isn't flat, I get deviations near the

screw
bosses. They're all pulled out slightly. I could probably clamp them
back to flush again.


You may find that a ball-peen hammer will do more good than trying to use
clamps. Just enough force to tap it back flat and that will not distort

the
rest of the fence.

Maybe I should try pulling all the screws out and then flatten all that
*#@&%
paint!


Bob S.






  #16   Report Post  
BobS
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mark,

Just looked at the pics you posted. Interesting the way they did that but
how in the hell they expect it to be flat for the entire length is beyond
me. I would call Jet and tell them about about bad that fence is and ask
them to send a replacement - whether it's under warranty or not. That is a
design or manufacturing flaw and they probably already have had so many
complaints that they have a fix for that. Squeaky wheel gets the grease....

But if you're determined to make this work, then I wouldn't place a screw
hole in the area of the clips because you need to countersink it on the face
side and there's not eneough thickness for that. So place the first screw
nearer the end, about an inch away from the clip. Same for the other end.
Place at least 3 or 4 more in between.

Those are self-tapping screws it looks like and that is powder-coated paint,
so as you said, those screws will be tough to get out but they will come
out.

Before you go to far - measure how far out (pluse and minus) the metal fence
is from end to end. If there is a big transition from the high to low spots
you will need to either lower the high spots or raise the low spots by
shimming or use a fence face material that will not deform and bend as
easily as the UHMW.

The suggestion of using Baltic Birch is good but finding it may be a trick
and a 5x5 sheet is a bit pricey if you don't have a need for the rest of it.
There are other ply's but are they available in your area is the question.
Have a cabinet shop around that may sell you some cutoffs?

You could use 3/4" MDF and laminate it with Formica as another idea. It's
inexpensive and flat - just be mindful of the dust and don't use your best
blade to machine it.

Weather permitting (it's an unheated shop), I'll take a pic or two of mine
so you can see exactly what I'm suggesting.

Bob S.


  #17   Report Post  
Nova
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mark Howell wrote:

Too much distortion when mounted. They're dead flat off the
fence, but when mounted they flex too much. The 4 clips pull
the face to the fence, and between the clips the stuff bows
outward.


I have the same fence. It sounds like the mortise for the clips in
the UHMW were cut a little too deep. Try backing off a bit on the
screws holding the clips to the UHMW where the fence is pulled in. It
took me a number of tries but I was able to get it to about .002 along
it's length. One of the good points is I now can remove and install
the faces with a rap with the palm of my hand. Using a mallet is no
longer necessary.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)


  #18   Report Post  
Unisaw A100
 
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Mark Howell wrote:
Maybe I'm using the wrong term for the "clips"




The "clips" are called/made by Mod-Eez in case anyone is
wondering/ever wanted to make/use something for themselves
on a fence upgrade.

http://www.mod-eez.com

In case anyone was wondering.

UA100
  #19   Report Post  
Nova
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Unisaw A100 wrote:

Mark Howell wrote:
Maybe I'm using the wrong term for the "clips"


The "clips" are called/made by Mod-Eez in case anyone is
wondering/ever wanted to make/use something for themselves
on a fence upgrade.

http://www.mod-eez.com

In case anyone was wondering.

UA100


The Jet Deluxe Commercial Xacta Fence with the micro adjuster is
actually made by HTC. The Mod-Eez clips are close but not quite those
used on the HTC fences. The link below shows the clips in item D:

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx...&FamilyID=6161

They're $9.00 for a package of 8 clips. I believe Rockler also sells
them.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)


  #20   Report Post  
Unisaw A100
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nova wrote:
The Mod-Eez clips are close but not quite those
used on the HTC fences.



The clips used by the manufacturers are Mod-Eez. Mod-Eez
makes a variety (20-30?) of them.

UA100


  #21   Report Post  
Nova
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Unisaw A100 wrote:

Nova wrote:
The Mod-Eez clips are close but not quite those
used on the HTC fences.


The clips used by the manufacturers are Mod-Eez. Mod-Eez
makes a variety (20-30?) of them.

UA100


You're most likely right. I could find that the patent 3491820 was
issued to Edward J. Ostling on January 27, 1970 and even the patented
drawing don't look like the actual clips used on the fence.

http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=...y=B0D383289088

(watch for word wrap, it's a longy)

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)


  #22   Report Post  
Mark Howell
 
Posts: n/a
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How are the faces attached to a Biesemeyer fence? I don't
see any obvious screws going through the face, at least not
in the couple of pictures that I've seen.

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...
Mark Howell wrote:
Maybe I'm using the wrong term for the "clips"




The "clips" are called/made by Mod-Eez in case anyone is
wondering/ever wanted to make/use something for themselves
on a fence upgrade.

http://www.mod-eez.com

In case anyone was wondering.

UA100



  #23   Report Post  
Unisaw A100
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mark Howell wrote:
How are the faces attached to a Biesemeyer fence? I don't
see any obvious screws going through the face, at least not
in the couple of pictures that I've seen.



They are attached with self tapping machine screws and
covered with laminate.

I'da thought after all these years someone at Biesemeyer or
Delta would have come to their senses but really neither
company is focused on making anything better, just making
the same thing over and over until the competition stomps
them through the floor.

(looks around, wonders, "why everybody looking at me like
that?")

UA100, who thinks the new Chiwanese fence on the new
Chiwanese Delta WantSaBeAUnisaw actually looks like someone
has been thinking about it...
  #24   Report Post  
Mark Howell
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sounds like those faces are sold as permanent fixtures.
I'd take permanent and precise over removable and
imprecise any day.
I've thought about my fence problem, and I believe that
I might have prematurely given the uhmw a bad rap. I
think the clip design is a good idea, but it is executed
poorly on this fence. Jet took no steps whatsoever to
make the fence itself flat. The rectangular steel tube of
the fence has slightly convex sides, and as a result the
faces will rock if lightly attached. The process of installing
the self-tapping screws distorted the face, and the thick layer
of uneven paint only helps to aggrivate the situation. The
uhmw is merely conforming to these irregularities. Once I
straighten the fence sides out, the uhmw should be happy.

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...
Mark Howell wrote:
How are the faces attached to a Biesemeyer fence? I don't
see any obvious screws going through the face, at least not
in the couple of pictures that I've seen.



They are attached with self tapping machine screws and
covered with laminate.

I'da thought after all these years someone at Biesemeyer or
Delta would have come to their senses but really neither
company is focused on making anything better, just making
the same thing over and over until the competition stomps
them through the floor.

(looks around, wonders, "why everybody looking at me like
that?")

UA100, who thinks the new Chiwanese fence on the new
Chiwanese Delta WantSaBeAUnisaw actually looks like someone
has been thinking about it...



  #25   Report Post  
BobS
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mark,

I think you're only considering 1/2 of the problem. The metal fence tube
will be uneven on both sides and getting those sides perfectly parallel
(or close enough) will be a tough job since each of the screws presents a
high spot. If you get one side flat it must be parallel to the "tweaked"
side or when you use that side of the fence it will not be parallel to the
blade.

Hope the above is clear enough and depending on how bad your fence is, you
may save yourself a lot of grief by making the fence faces out of ply or
MDF. They would be easier to shim out if mounted with screws rather than
those clips.

Also think you should give Jet a call. I went thru 3 fences with them
before I got one that was welded square. They admitted to having a QC
problem and were eager to fix the problem - no hassle even when I called the
next two times....

Bob S.

"Mark Howell" wrote in message
news:qQNKd.9$zP5.1@trndny09...
Sounds like those faces are sold as permanent fixtures.
I'd take permanent and precise over removable and
imprecise any day.
I've thought about my fence problem, and I believe that
I might have prematurely given the uhmw a bad rap. I
think the clip design is a good idea, but it is executed
poorly on this fence. Jet took no steps whatsoever to
make the fence itself flat. The rectangular steel tube of
the fence has slightly convex sides, and as a result the
faces will rock if lightly attached. The process of installing
the self-tapping screws distorted the face, and the thick layer
of uneven paint only helps to aggrivate the situation. The
uhmw is merely conforming to these irregularities. Once I
straighten the fence sides out, the uhmw should be happy.

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...
Mark Howell wrote:
How are the faces attached to a Biesemeyer fence? I don't
see any obvious screws going through the face, at least not
in the couple of pictures that I've seen.



They are attached with self tapping machine screws and
covered with laminate.

I'da thought after all these years someone at Biesemeyer or
Delta would have come to their senses but really neither
company is focused on making anything better, just making
the same thing over and over until the competition stomps
them through the floor.

(looks around, wonders, "why everybody looking at me like
that?")

UA100, who thinks the new Chiwanese fence on the new
Chiwanese Delta WantSaBeAUnisaw actually looks like someone
has been thinking about it...





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