I've got a friend who knows nothing of newsgroups (before I told him) so I
told him I would post his question. He is a fan of Veritas planes and wants
a Medium Shoulder Plane from Lee Valley as soon as he can get one so that he
can finish a project.

Apparantly Lee Valley is out and won't get any more until late January. He
was told to find a retail outlet that might have them. He found a store in
Toronto has three but since they are not a distributor, they would not sell
/ ship him one. They told him to call customer service who could possibly
arrange for it. When calling customer service, he was told three was not
enough stock for them to have one transfered so that it could be sold to
him. He offered an immediate sale in advance but was refused.

His question has to do with what is considered reasonable. He obviously
feels that the store would most likely not sell three of them before they
can be replinished in January and feels they should let one go. Lee Valley
says that like a good friend, they will tell you when you are unreasonable
and apparantly feels his request falls into this. As a result, he has
decided that he needs one bad enough that he is going to spend another $160
and get a Lie Neilson but would actually prefer the Veritas because he likes
them so much. He is curious as to what the thoughts of others are - I'm a
little torn myself and can see both sides but it makes for an interesting
question.

Don

D. J. Dorn wrote:
His question has to do with what is considered reasonable. He obviously
feels that the store would most likely not sell three of them before they
can be replinished in January and feels they should let one go.

LOL, he has never been in a retail LV during this time of year. They
will *extremely* easily sell 3 before chrismas. I would be very surpised
if the three are still there by Friday.


Reasonable? They are out of stock. He should either wait or buy an
alternate (L-N as you mentioned he will). WW requires patience.

Regardless of whether they'll sell them or not by Friday/January, I'm
surprised something couldn't be worked out to throw one in a box and ship it
out to a customer. That seems pretty reasonable to me, especially for a
company that prides itself on it's customer service. I realize they're busy
this time of year (I used to work in retail computer store in a mall), but
it wouldn't take long to fulfill the customer's request.

Clint

"Paul Kierstead" wrote in message
...
D. J. Dorn wrote:
His question has to do with what is considered reasonable. He obviously
feels that the store would most likely not sell three of them before they
can be replinished in January and feels they should let one go.

LOL, he has never been in a retail LV during this time of year. They will
*extremely* easily sell 3 before chrismas. I would be very surpised if the
three are still there by Friday.


Reasonable? They are out of stock. He should either wait or buy an
alternate (L-N as you mentioned he will). WW requires patience.

Clint wrote:

Regardless of whether they'll sell them or not by Friday/January, I'm
surprised something couldn't be worked out to throw one in a box and ship
it
out to a customer. That seems pretty reasonable to me, especially for a
company that prides itself on it's customer service. I realize they're
busy this time of year (I used to work in retail computer store in a
mall), but it wouldn't take long to fulfill the customer's request.

I'm inclined in this direction too. It really doesn't seem like that big of
a deal to me for a store to make someone happy by selling something like
that over the phone. Hell, I did that once at a big name retail mega corp.
Some guy wanted to buy something weird, and we were the only store that had
one, so somehow or other we arranged to take his credit card, a mailed in
money order or soemthing, and we boxed up all our stock and UPSed it to
him. That big name mega corp also has an online wing, though it isn't
quite the same deal as LV. Christmas is the time of year when weird things
like that happen all the time. We used to just accomomdate the customers
and take the cashola to the bank. What difference did it make to us who
ultimately walked away with the item so long as the full retail price,
including sales tax, was paid? I think we charged him sales tax on the
shipping too.

Although the tax issue does bring up some interesting angles. I'm not sure
what the tax structure looks like in Kanukistan. Maybe there's some deep
reason why the store can't do this tidily, because of some trouble with
provincial sales tax or VAT or something. Does Canada have VAT?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:10:24 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Clint wrote:

Regardless of whether they'll sell them or not by Friday/January, I'm
surprised something couldn't be worked out to throw one in a box and ship
it
out to a customer. That seems pretty reasonable to me, especially for a
company that prides itself on it's customer service. I realize they're
busy this time of year (I used to work in retail computer store in a
mall), but it wouldn't take long to fulfill the customer's request.

I'm inclined in this direction too. It really doesn't seem like that big of
a deal to me for a store to make someone happy by selling something like
that over the phone. Hell, I did that once at a big name retail mega corp.
Some guy wanted to buy something weird, and we were the only store that had
one, so somehow or other we arranged to take his credit card,

Most stores, at least in Canada, will not or can not take a credit card order
over the phone.
Their websites however have a CC validation process.
For instance Marks Work Warehouse will deliver FREE to your home if you order
from a local store but first you must present yourself in person to validate
your credit card.
Companies like Rona have a similar policy regarding credit cards.
Some companies will accept a credit card order by FAX.

a mailed in
money order or soemthing, and we boxed up all our stock and UPSed it to
him. That big name mega corp also has an online wing, though it isn't
quite the same deal as LV. Christmas is the time of year when weird things
like that happen all the time. We used to just accomomdate the customers
and take the cashola to the bank. What difference did it make to us who
ultimately walked away with the item so long as the full retail price,
including sales tax, was paid? I think we charged him sales tax on the
shipping too.

Although the tax issue does bring up some interesting angles. I'm not sure
what the tax structure looks like in Kanukistan. Maybe there's some deep
reason why the store can't do this tidily, because of some trouble with
provincial sales tax or VAT or something. Does Canada have VAT?

Wed, Dec 15, 2004, 5:36am (EST+5) (Clint)
says:
snip I'm surprised something couldn't be worked out to throw one in a
box and ship it out to a customer. snip

Yes, it would be nice of them, wouldn't it? The however of it is,
then it would set a precedent. Do it for one, do it for all.

Maybe someone in the area of the store would be good enough to pick
up one, and send it on. But, that was never brought up, was it?



JOAT
We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails.
- unknown

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:50:46 -0600, "D. J. Dorn"
wrote:
As a result, he has
decided that he needs one bad enough that he is going to spend another $160
and get a Lie Neilson but would actually prefer the Veritas because he likes
them so much.

LN dosen't make a plane similar to the Veritas medium shoulder, only
the large. Clifton and Stanley make a medium plane.

As far as the store sending one back to Lee Valley? They obviously
feel that they will sell the planes. In my opinion, asking the store
to return a small tool to the distributor so that it can be sold to
someone else is ridiculous. The store incurs the following costs:

- return shipping
- handing (labor)
- opportunity and goodwill cost of loss of a sale to a local.

What's in it for the store?

I think you're asking a bit much.

Barry

"Ba r r y" wrote in message

As far as the store sending one back to Lee Valley? They obviously
feel that they will sell the planes. In my opinion, asking the store
to return a small tool to the distributor so that it can be sold to
someone else is ridiculous.

Perhaps someone in this group would be willing to go to one of LV's stores
and pick up a plane to forward on. I'd offer to do so myself except that
both the Toronto stores would take up most of a working day to get to and
return. The only difficulty would be the guaranteeing of the trade of funds
for the plane and the guaranteeing of shipping out of the plane.

Ba r r y wrote:

LN dosen't make a plane similar to the Veritas medium shoulder, only
the large. Clifton and Stanley make a medium plane.

According to the LN reps at the woodworking show last weekend, they _will_
be offering two additional shoulder planes in the near future to fill the
gap between the existing two. They were even taking pre-orders.

Mikey

In article ,
"D. J. Dorn" wrote:

[snipperization]
Apparantly Lee Valley is out and won't get any more until late January. He
was told to find a retail outlet that might have them. He found a store in
Toronto has three but since they are not a distributor, they would not sell
/ ship him one.
[snippage]

The store would essentially give away their potential profit.
NOT to mention the paperwork with the tax claw-backs etc.
I said NOT to mention it!!

I can't blame the retailers.
Lee Valley has always been more than fair and things are running
smoothly these days even though Leonard Lee has started an already
successful new venture--- wouldn't you know it... more tools.. insanely
expensive tools... http://www.canica.com/

Rob----who is getting VERY strange looks from his wife as he just
(before breakfast) cranked the Flinstones tune (B-52 version). Be
careful with that 'random play' button in iTunes...

"D. J. Dorn" wrote in message

Apparantly Lee Valley is out and won't get any more until late January.
He was told to find a retail outlet that might have them. He found a
store in Toronto has three but since they are not a distributor, they
would not sell / ship him one. They told him to call customer service who
could possibly arrange for it. When calling customer service, he was told
three was not enough stock for them to have one transfered so that it
could be sold to him. He offered an immediate sale in advance but was
refused.

His question has to do with what is considered reasonable.

Please clarify, was this a Lee Valley store? Or an independent?

My guess is the store has no simple way of taking a CC on the phone (some
pay large fees if they do). They may not have regular UPS or mail service
so it would be added cost to got to a depot to ship. In any case, in the
middle of a buys season it will not be profitable, will detract from serving
the walk in trade, probably have some other implications. Sending it back to
LV incurs even more cost. Sorry, but I think you are asking a little too
much.

Clint wrote:
Regardless of whether they'll sell them or not by Friday/January, I'm
surprised something couldn't be worked out to throw one in a box and ship it
out to a customer. That seems pretty reasonable to me, especially for a
company that prides itself on it's customer service. I realize they're busy
this time of year (I used to work in retail computer store in a mall), but
it wouldn't take long to fulfill the customer's request.

I agree with you in principle, but it really isn't all that simple. The
OP appears to be american (from his email addy). Now for a retail store
to ship to him, they will:
- need to locate a suitable box
- locate suitable packing materials
- figure out if they are allowed to do this without a card. I know for
express orders from the store (where you call in/fax an order prepaid
with a CC) they still require to see the card at pick-up
- Figure out how to charge for shipping, and most importantly how to put
that in the computer
- Figure out the tax issue. THey won't be charging taxes; however, I
doubt the retail computers will easily not charge tax without a tax
examption number
- Arrange with a shipper and fill out the duties information. Who in the
store is authorized, how to fill it out, etc will all be issues.
- Finally get it out the door.

Shipping things, especially cross border in a commercial environment, is
non-trivial.

PK

There was a time I drove 1.5 hrs one way to go to a LV store. Many many
times. Sometimes I've driven two hours to go shopping. (And come up empty!)

Is it reasonable for your friend or someone he knows to get to the
store. If not, it is reasonable for your friend to wait.

Don, you had to ask these questions?

John



D. J. Dorn wrote:

I've got a friend who knows nothing of newsgroups (before I told him) so I
told him I would post his question. He is a fan of Veritas planes and wants
a Medium Shoulder Plane from Lee Valley as soon as he can get one so that he
can finish a project.

Apparantly Lee Valley is out and won't get any more until late January. He
was told to find a retail outlet that might have them. He found a store in
Toronto has three but since they are not a distributor, they would not sell
/ ship him one. They told him to call customer service who could possibly
arrange for it. When calling customer service, he was told three was not
enough stock for them to have one transfered so that it could be sold to
him. He offered an immediate sale in advance but was refused.

His question has to do with what is considered reasonable. He obviously
feels that the store would most likely not sell three of them before they
can be replinished in January and feels they should let one go. Lee Valley
says that like a good friend, they will tell you when you are unreasonable
and apparantly feels his request falls into this. As a result, he has
decided that he needs one bad enough that he is going to spend another $160
and get a Lie Neilson but would actually prefer the Veritas because he likes
them so much. He is curious as to what the thoughts of others are - I'm a
little torn myself and can see both sides but it makes for an interesting
question.

Don

"sandman" wrote in message
:
: I can't blame the retailers.
: Lee Valley has always been more than fair and things are running
: smoothly these days even though Leonard Lee has started an already
: successful new venture--- wouldn't you know it... more tools.. insanely
: expensive tools... http://www.canica.com/

I see a great opportunity here for cross-promotion:

....scalpels would be found near the dental picks. http://tinyurl.com/4nbl3
....skin anchors would be found in the joinery section
http://tinyurl.com/4bgfg
....chess anchor components could be dual use as gaming accessories
http://tinyurl.com/5wor6

One stop shopping for the woodworker... close up that blade wound, pick up
some exotic veneers etc.

-Brian

I can understand that side of the point - however, the stores advise to
contact customer service for the option of having one sent certainly implies
that such an option exists. It wasn't that they couldn't do it, the CS rep
stated that because the store only had three, that option was closed. If
it's an unreasonable request regardless of quantity in stock, I don't think
they shouldn't put it forward as an option. Anyway, I'll pass the opinions
on. BTW, I too am a LV customer and have always been happy with the
product - fortunately, never had to use the service option.

Don

"Eddie Munster" wrote in message
...
There was a time I drove 1.5 hrs one way to go to a LV store. Many many
times. Sometimes I've driven two hours to go shopping. (And come up
empty!)

Is it reasonable for your friend or someone he knows to get to the store.
If not, it is reasonable for your friend to wait.

Don, you had to ask these questions?

John



D. J. Dorn wrote:

I've got a friend who knows nothing of newsgroups (before I told him) so
I told him I would post his question. He is a fan of Veritas planes and
wants a Medium Shoulder Plane from Lee Valley as soon as he can get one
so that he can finish a project.

Apparantly Lee Valley is out and won't get any more until late January.
He was told to find a retail outlet that might have them. He found a
store in Toronto has three but since they are not a distributor, they
would not sell / ship him one. They told him to call customer service
who could possibly arrange for it. When calling customer service, he was
told three was not enough stock for them to have one transfered so that
it could be sold to him. He offered an immediate sale in advance but was
refused.

His question has to do with what is considered reasonable. He obviously
feels that the store would most likely not sell three of them before they
can be replinished in January and feels they should let one go. Lee
Valley says that like a good friend, they will tell you when you are
unreasonable and apparantly feels his request falls into this. As a
result, he has decided that he needs one bad enough that he is going to
spend another $160 and get a Lie Neilson but would actually prefer the
Veritas because he likes them so much. He is curious as to what the
thoughts of others are - I'm a little torn myself and can see both sides
but it makes for an interesting question.

Don

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:40:39 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Ba r r y wrote:

LN dosen't make a plane similar to the Veritas medium shoulder, only
the large. Clifton and Stanley make a medium plane.

According to the LN reps at the woodworking show last weekend, they _will_
be offering two additional shoulder planes in the near future to fill the
gap between the existing two. They were even taking pre-orders.

Remember the chisel pre-orders? G

Barry

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:59:04 -0500, sandman
wrote:

Lee Valley has always been more than fair and things are running
smoothly these days even though Leonard Lee has started an already
successful new venture--- wouldn't you know it... more tools.. insanely
expensive tools... http://www.canica.com/

That site has some seriously cringe-inducing pictures on it!

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com