Rather than clamping or nailing shelf edging 'til the yellow glue sets up,
what about contact cement? I know that the wood cannot be repositioned --
thus the word "contact". I am thinking of a wood edge rather than edge
tape. For 3/4" ply, I'd use a 1/4" thick slice of 5/4 and then route the
part that overhangs above and below the ply. WIll contact cement hold as
well as yellow glue and clamping?

A concern is that staining might be a problem if there is any
squeeze-out/drip onto the ply. I haven't used contact cement in a while
and don't recall if it is possible to roll some on the edge of the ply w/o
it unavoidably ending up on the surface of the ply.

Comments? TIA. -- Igor

Yellow carpenter's glue sets up in about an hour. By the time you wait
around for the contact cement to get dry to the touch on both surfaces, the
time differential is not great.

Besides, I'd bet carpenter's glue holds better than contact cement. I'm
constantly having to re-fit pieces of high pressure laminate on countertop
edges because the contact cement failed.

"igor" wrote in message
...
Rather than clamping or nailing shelf edging 'til the yellow glue sets up,
what about contact cement? I know that the wood cannot be repositioned --
thus the word "contact". I am thinking of a wood edge rather than edge
tape. For 3/4" ply, I'd use a 1/4" thick slice of 5/4 and then route the
part that overhangs above and below the ply. WIll contact cement hold as
well as yellow glue and clamping?

A concern is that staining might be a problem if there is any
squeeze-out/drip onto the ply. I haven't used contact cement in a while
and don't recall if it is possible to roll some on the edge of the ply w/o
it unavoidably ending up on the surface of the ply.

Comments? TIA. -- Igor

"igor" wrote in message
...
Rather than clamping or nailing shelf edging 'til the yellow glue sets up,
what about contact cement?

It won't be as strong and secure as yellow glue. Try using painter's masking
tape to hold the wood edging in place. I'm not Mr. Krenov, but its worked
well for me - found it on one of those woodworking tips pages.

Bob

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:04:59 GMT, "Chuck Hoffman"
calmly ranted:

Yellow carpenter's glue sets up in about an hour. By the time you wait
around for the contact cement to get dry to the touch on both surfaces, the
time differential is not great.

Besides, I'd bet carpenter's glue holds better than contact cement. I'm
constantly having to re-fit pieces of high pressure laminate on countertop
edges because the contact cement failed.

If that's the case, you either:

1) Didn't clean the parts prior to gluing
2) Didn't use the proper material to bond to
3) Didn't use enough cement, or enough coats on some mat'ls
4) Didn't wait the proper time for tacking (longer in humidity)
5) Didn't ventilate the area properly during tack time
6) Used the adhesive at too cold a temperature for proper bond
7) Didn't really smack the two surfaces together and clamp for
a short while afterward to ensure a good, firm, complete bond
8) Used adhesive beyond its date or had been otherwise corrupted
OR
8) Any combinations of the above.

Glues don't "just fail", guys. We have to help 'em fail.
DAMHIKT


--
Strong like ox, smart like tractor.
----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Oxen-free Website Design

"Chuck Hoffman" wrote in message .com...
Yellow carpenter's glue sets up in about an hour. By the time you wait
around for the contact cement to get dry to the touch on both surfaces, the
time differential is not great.

Besides, I'd bet carpenter's glue holds better than contact cement. I'm
constantly having to re-fit pieces of high pressure laminate on countertop
edges because the contact cement failed.

"igor" wrote in message
...
Rather than clamping or nailing shelf edging 'til the yellow glue sets up,
what about contact cement? I know that the wood cannot be repositioned --
thus the word "contact". I am thinking of a wood edge rather than edge
tape. For 3/4" ply, I'd use a 1/4" thick slice of 5/4 and then route the
part that overhangs above and below the ply. WIll contact cement hold as
well as yellow glue and clamping?

A concern is that staining might be a problem if there is any
squeeze-out/drip onto the ply. I haven't used contact cement in a while
and don't recall if it is possible to roll some on the edge of the ply w/o
it unavoidably ending up on the surface of the ply.

Comments? TIA. -- Igor

I have used contact coment for gluing solid word trim to plywood for
the last 25 years and have never had any of the edges come off. I used
solid word to cut my trim and glue to to 3/4 or 1/2 plywood and router
of the edges that extend on both sides. Normal 1 inch solid is just a
bit wider that 3/4 ply. A little scraping and sanding and the edge
looks like the edge of solid wood. I have used bits for trimming
formica with either a straight or a bevel. I prefer the bevel bit.

It works,

Al

On 18 Nov 2004 22:52:54 -0800, (Al Holstein) wrote:

I have used contact coment for gluing solid word trim to plywood for
the last 25 years and have never had any of the edges come off. I used
solid word to cut my trim and glue to to 3/4 or 1/2 plywood and router
of the edges that extend on both sides. Normal 1 inch solid is just a
bit wider that 3/4 ply. A little scraping and sanding and the edge
looks like the edge of solid wood. I have used bits for trimming
formica with either a straight or a bevel. I prefer the bevel bit.

It works,

Since you have had such success with this, could you provide some details
about how you do this?

For example: What kind of applications have you done this in -- such as
book shelves, drawers? How do you apply the cement to the edges - to get
enough but avoid runs? How do you deal with any runs or squeeze-out, if
there is any? Have you ever stained the wood afterwards and are there any
problems of the stain not taking at/near the joint? Any tricks to getting
things aligned before contact - since, unlike with an oversized piece of
laminate, there is less margin of error?

How thick/deep is the wood you use on the edge? AND, do you clamp the trim
to the ply?

Before I made the original post I thought I knew the answer to most of
these, but since a number of replies indicated that this approach would NOT
work well, I thought I'd ask even some simple ones to make sure I don't
miss anything. TIA. -- Igor

"igor" wrote in message
...
On 18 Nov 2004 22:52:54 -0800, (Al Holstein) wrote:

I have used contact coment for gluing solid word trim to plywood for
the last 25 years and have never had any of the edges come off. I used
solid word to cut my trim and glue to to 3/4 or 1/2 plywood and router
of the edges that extend on both sides. Normal 1 inch solid is just a
bit wider that 3/4 ply. A little scraping and sanding and the edge
looks like the edge of solid wood. I have used bits for trimming
formica with either a straight or a bevel. I prefer the bevel bit.

It works,

Since you have had such success with this, could you provide some details
about how you do this?

For example: What kind of applications have you done this in -- such as
book shelves, drawers? How do you apply the cement to the edges - to get
enough but avoid runs? How do you deal with any runs or squeeze-out, if
there is any? Have you ever stained the wood afterwards and are there any
problems of the stain not taking at/near the joint? Any tricks to getting
things aligned before contact - since, unlike with an oversized piece of
laminate, there is less margin of error?

How thick/deep is the wood you use on the edge? AND, do you clamp the
trim
to the ply?

Before I made the original post I thought I knew the answer to most of
these, but since a number of replies indicated that this approach would
NOT
work well, I thought I'd ask even some simple ones to make sure I don't
miss anything. TIA. -- Igor

The good news is that contact cement is not glue, so you don't have all of
the glue issues to deal with. No squeeze out, no clamping, no runs. Stain
would likely still be an issue, but just don't overdue the contact cement.
With contact cement, you're just looking to coat each surface then let it
tack. Though... remember, once on, always on. You don't adjust pieces
after you've placed them with contact cement.
--

-Mike-

igor wrote in message . ..
On 18 Nov 2004 22:52:54 -0800, (Al Holstein) wrote:

I have used contact coment for gluing solid word trim to plywood for
the last 25 years and have never had any of the edges come off. I used
solid word to cut my trim and glue to to 3/4 or 1/2 plywood and router
of the edges that extend on both sides. Normal 1 inch solid is just a
bit wider that 3/4 ply. A little scraping and sanding and the edge
looks like the edge of solid wood. I have used bits for trimming
formica with either a straight or a bevel. I prefer the bevel bit.

It works,

Since you have had such success with this, could you provide some details
about how you do this?

For example: What kind of applications have you done this in -- such as
book shelves, drawers? How do you apply the cement to the edges - to get
enough but avoid runs? How do you deal with any runs or squeeze-out, if
there is any? Have you ever stained the wood afterwards and are there any
problems of the stain not taking at/near the joint? Any tricks to getting
things aligned before contact - since, unlike with an oversized piece of
laminate, there is less margin of error?

How thick/deep is the wood you use on the edge? AND, do you clamp the trim
to the ply?

Before I made the original post I thought I knew the answer to most of
these, but since a number of replies indicated that this approach would NOT
work well, I thought I'd ask even some simple ones to make sure I don't
miss anything. TIA. -- Igor

Igor,

I use DAP contact cement. The trim pieces that I use are ripped about
1/8" to 3/16" thick. I have used red oak when I am using oak ply wood,
I have also used in on birch plywood for kitchen cabinet shelves. I
did all of the shelves and drawer sides for the kitchen cabinets that
I built.

I use a 1" cheap bristle brush and liberally coat the plywood and the
trim. You let it dry to the touch (15 minutes or so) and then put the
two pieces together. I then hammer the trim edge down to really make
the two pieces to really bond together. I use a rubber hammer to
avoid denting the trip pieces. With this you are left with a small
amount of trim that lips out over the edge of the 3/4 plywood. It is
right that you have to get the piece on correctly as you can't move it
after you place to gether. I then trim the shelf by running it
vertically on my router table. Using a bearing formica trimming bit
you cut of the extra edge and have a flush clean edge.
The contact cement that may drip down on either piece is fairly easy
to remove with a bit of sanding. I don't think that it makes as big a
mess as glue or causes as much problem with staining.

It may not be as strong a joint as glue makes, but if you don't have
any expose edges the trim piece is practially impossible to remove.

The only problem that I have had is splitting a piece of trim when
routing the excess off. This is either a result of trying to take too
much of in one cut or a section of bad grain on the trim piece. I
have never had a piece come off with time or use.

Good Luck!

On 19 Nov 2004 22:50:20 -0800, (Al Holstein) wrote:

I use DAP contact cement. The trim pieces that I use are ripped about
1/8" to 3/16" thick. I have used red oak when I am using oak ply wood,
I have also used in on birch plywood for kitchen cabinet shelves. I
did all of the shelves and drawer sides for the kitchen cabinets that
I built.

I use a 1" cheap bristle brush and liberally coat the plywood and the
trim. You let it dry to the touch (15 minutes or so) and then put the
two pieces together. I then hammer the trim edge down to really make
the two pieces to really bond together. I use a rubber hammer to
avoid denting the trip pieces. With this you are left with a small
amount of trim that lips out over the edge of the 3/4 plywood. It is
right that you have to get the piece on correctly as you can't move it
after you place to gether. I then trim the shelf by running it
vertically on my router table. Using a bearing formica trimming bit
you cut of the extra edge and have a flush clean edge.
The contact cement that may drip down on either piece is fairly easy
to remove with a bit of sanding. I don't think that it makes as big a
mess as glue or causes as much problem with staining.

It may not be as strong a joint as glue makes, but if you don't have
any expose edges the trim piece is practially impossible to remove.

The only problem that I have had is splitting a piece of trim when
routing the excess off. This is either a result of trying to take too
much of in one cut or a section of bad grain on the trim piece. I
have never had a piece come off with time or use.

Good Luck!

Al -- Excellent! That detail is _very_ helpful. For drawer sides I may
use 1/4" thick strips on 1/2" ply and then using a 1/2" bullnose. Doing 4'
or 8' strips at one time should go reasonably fast. And if I use a lock
miter bit for the drawer joints, it should all fit fine. Again, thanks. --
Igor

Al -- Excellent! That detail is _very_ helpful. For drawer sides I may
use 1/4" thick strips on 1/2" ply and then using a 1/2" bullnose. Doing 4'
or 8' strips at one time should go reasonably fast. And if I use a lock
miter bit for the drawer joints, it should all fit fine. Again, thanks. --
Igor


Igor,

A couple of suggestions. Doing 8' at at time may save some time, but
it will be more difficult to control the trim piece and get it lined
up correctly to make it stick. I do spend some extra time triming each
piece to length rather than doing it batch fashing like you suggeste.

Good luck and let me know how it comes out.

Regards,

Al

On 21 Nov 2004 20:41:07 -0800, (Al Holstein) wrote:

A couple of suggestions. Doing 8' at at time may save some time, but
it will be more difficult to control the trim piece and get it lined
up correctly to make it stick. I do spend some extra time triming each
piece to length rather than doing it batch fashing like you suggeste.

Good luck and let me know how it comes out.

Al -- I will post results but it may be some many months. I was asking now
mostly just to decide for my much-delayed kitchen project whether/how I can
use ply for the drawers or whether I would need to use solid wood to get
the look I want. As for the length of the wood to edge at any one time,
that is a good point and I will probably start with 4' lengths -- and may
stay there. I do also work with plastic and have strips to which glue
doesn't stick, so I am thinking posibly about a jig, especially if I do
longer than 4'. -- Igor