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  #11   Report Post  
Old May 21st 21, 06:22 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.


No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.


If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.


Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.


The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.


The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.


No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)


Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.


The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)

Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.


Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.


I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.

  #12   Report Post  
Old May 21st 21, 06:24 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.



Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.
  #13   Report Post  
Old May 21st 21, 09:31 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/21/2021 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.

No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.


If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.


Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.

The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.


The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.


No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)

Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.


The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)


Yes it is but when it works this well....



Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.


I have had a MFT for about8 years now. I like it even though it wobbles
a bit with out the leg stiffeners. And I use it a lot, and fold it up
when not in use. Plenty strong, it just wobbles. And the MDF top, not
particle board, has held up very well, the dog holes are used often and
show no signs of wear




Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.


I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.


Well there you go. A couple of cuts is not an issue for me. I make
those cuts to square stock and for when I buy stock that is too long to
comfortably cross cut on the TS.

Jury on the abstainers is still out for me. Too much expense added to
the cost of the tool. But I do like dedicated holders for my tools,
even my Shaper Origin came in a large abstainer. I feel like the
Systainers are better than what "most"of the competition is offering.
One exception is the case that came with my free Bosch impact driver.
It is square and flat. That makes storing much much easier that the
plastic injection molded cases that are round everywhere.

So the Systainers have a lot of advantages for me, they just should not
be that expensive.
  #14   Report Post  
Old May 21st 21, 09:37 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.



Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.
  #15   Report Post  
Old May 21st 21, 10:04 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.


Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.


Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?


  #16   Report Post  
Old May 22nd 21, 01:10 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:31:54 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.

No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.

If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.


Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.

The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.

The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.


No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)

Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.


The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)


Yes it is but when it works this well....



Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.


I have had a MFT for about8 years now. I like it even though it wobbles
a bit with out the leg stiffeners. And I use it a lot, and fold it up
when not in use. Plenty strong, it just wobbles. And the MDF top, not
particle board, has held up very well, the dog holes are used often and
show no signs of wear

A card table warbles a bit too. ...about the same bit.

The color looked more like particle board. I don't have one that I
can look at, so thought that's what it was.

I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.


Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.


I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.


Well there you go. A couple of cuts is not an issue for me. I make
those cuts to square stock and for when I buy stock that is too long to
comfortably cross cut on the TS.


My SCMS is always set up. I use it too often just to whack 2xs.

Jury on the abstainers is still out for me. Too much expense added to
the cost of the tool. But I do like dedicated holders for my tools,
even my Shaper Origin came in a large abstainer. I feel like the
Systainers are better than what "most"of the competition is offering.
One exception is the case that came with my free Bosch impact driver.
It is square and flat. That makes storing much much easier that the
plastic injection molded cases that are round everywhere.


Blow mold cases suck worse but it would systainers would be much
better if the plastic was somewhat softer. Brittle and tools doesn't
go well.

So the Systainers have a lot of advantages for me, they just should not
be that expensive.


For the time being they work but I plan to make them redundant.
  #17   Report Post  
Old May 23rd 21, 02:44 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2018
Posts: 49
Default Murphy bed progress

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF

on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Bob
  #18   Report Post  
Old May 23rd 21, 09:21 PM posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/21/2021 7:10 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:31:54 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:22 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon [email protected]
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.

No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.

If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.

Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.

The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.

The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.

No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)

Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.

The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)


Yes it is but when it works this well....



Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.


I have had a MFT for about8 years now. I like it even though it wobbles
a bit with out the leg stiffeners. And I use it a lot, and fold it up
when not in use. Plenty strong, it just wobbles. And the MDF top, not
particle board, has held up very well, the dog holes are used often and
show no signs of wear

A card table warbles a bit too. ...about the same bit.


And the card table works just fine for what it was intended. I thought
that I would have an issue with the wobble but I have never taken the
extra steps to buy or make the leg stiffeners. I really only notice the
wobble when I set the MFT up. It really does not wobble enough to be
detrimental for anything I do on it, including inlay with the Origin.



The color looked more like particle board. I don't have one that I
can look at, so thought that's what it was.

I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.


They probably last because the dogs fit well, Festool dogs. ;~) Either
way an MDF with dog holes is easier to replace than a solid wood work bench.



Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.

I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.


Well there you go. A couple of cuts is not an issue for me. I make
those cuts to square stock and for when I buy stock that is too long to
comfortably cross cut on the TS.


My SCMS is always set up. I use it too often just to whack 2xs.


So on this Murphy bed project I am trimming the edges of the MDO with
poplar. I am cutting all of those pieces to length, 20 pieces and on
each end square the end, between 30 and 40 cuts. Here is the dust build
up on the Kapex so far. Zoom in on the right side of the miter scale
and near the miter lock. ;~)

I will have to admit that on the kitchen job something was not right,
IIRC there was a hunk of wood disturbing the suction path and sawdust
was considerable, considering this is a Kapex, but not now.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/



Jury on the abstainers is still out for me. Too much expense added to
the cost of the tool. But I do like dedicated holders for my tools,
even my Shaper Origin came in a large abstainer. I feel like the
Systainers are better than what "most"of the competition is offering.
One exception is the case that came with my free Bosch impact driver.
It is square and flat. That makes storing much much easier that the
plastic injection molded cases that are round everywhere.


Blow mold cases suck worse but it would systainers would be much
better if the plastic was somewhat softer. Brittle and tools doesn't
go well.


The systainers seem brittle but I have yet to chip,crack, or break one
and my oldest are about 13 years old, and I have 10 of them.



So the Systainers have a lot of advantages for me, they just should not
be that expensive.


For the time being they work but I plan to make them redundant.


  #19   Report Post  
Old May 23rd 21, 09:23 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/22/2021 8:44 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF

on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Bob


Nope, I use these too.

https://www.rockler.com/in-line-clam...CUNo QAvD_BwE
  #20   Report Post  
Old May 23rd 21, 09:35 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF

on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.


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