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Old December 19th 20, 06:10 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?

It's been a while, but I have gotten some good advice here.

https://flic.kr/p/2kgvcD4

I'm recycling some 1.5" thick butcher-block style table top material that I got for free. The piece was a weird shape, something like 15" x 84". I wanted to make it about 41"x26" for a small coffee table, although I haven't decided yet what to put underneath the top.

I cut it in half lengthwise and then ripped it down with a circular saw and straightedge. It was difficult due to a not-great saw, a not-great blade and my not-great skills. I kind of butchered it, even doing the cut in three passes, but I was expecting that. I "jointed" the edge with a router, a straightedge and a straight bit, which worked well.

Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

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Old December 19th 20, 06:47 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?


"Waste of time" has to account for all the side-effects. Once the glue
sets, the glue should be stronger than the wood, so no other fasteners
are needed. But... did the dowels help you assemble it? Did they
maintain alignment for you? I use biscuits for all my glue-ups, despite
trusting the glue, because overall they're worth the effort.

So no, I don't think they're a waste of time.
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Old December 19th 20, 03:20 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?

On 12/19/2020 12:47 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:

"Waste of time" has to account for all the side-effects. Once the glue
sets, the glue should be stronger than the wood, so no other fasteners
are needed. But... did the dowels help you assemble it? Did they
maintain alignment for you? I use biscuits for all my glue-ups, despite
trusting the glue, because overall they're worth the effort.

So no, I don't think they're a waste of time.

Biscuits are a God send for glue ups and you do not need a biscuit
cutter to use them. I use a slot cut bit on my router table.

With one fence to control the positioning of the slot and a second
putter kickback fence, I can cut the 8 end grain slots in a picture
frame in less than two minutes. I cut the left end of the piece from the
right side of the bit, and the right end of the piece from the left
side. All perfectly aligned as to pitch and position. With more pieces,
the proper arrangement of the pieces, and getting into the swing, the
two minutes per 8 pieces can be bettered.

Set up takes 5 to 8 minutes. I have a jig to help with the vertical
setting and use a metal ruler to set the horizontal position in the piece.

I have used the same set up without the kick back fence to cut the slot
for the pieces to glue up a table top. It takes a little longer, but
like the end grain cut they are precisely aligned to the piece. If I
were doing this a lot I would work up a jig.

The system is a little difficult to cut the slots in a 4X8 piece of
plywood ;-)
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Old December 19th 20, 03:40 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?

On 12/19/2020 9:20 AM, knuttle wrote:
On 12/19/2020 12:47 AM, DJ Delorie wrote:

"Waste of time" has to account for all the side-effects.* Once the glue
sets, the glue should be stronger than the wood, so no other fasteners
are needed.* But... did the dowels help you assemble it?* Did they
maintain alignment for you?* I use biscuits for all my glue-ups, despite
trusting the glue, because overall they're worth the effort.

So no, I don't think they're a waste of time.

Biscuits are a God send for glue ups and you do not need a biscuit
cutter to use them.** I use a slot cut bit on my router table.

With one fence to control the positioning of the slot and a second
putter kickback fence,* I can cut the 8 end grain slots in a picture
frame in less than two minutes. I cut the left end of the piece from the
right side of the bit, and the right end of the piece from the left
side. All perfectly aligned as to pitch and position. With more pieces,
the proper arrangement of the pieces, and getting into the swing, the
two minutes per 8 pieces can be bettered.

Set up takes 5 to 8 minutes.* I have a jig to help with the vertical
setting and use a metal ruler to set the horizontal position in the piece.

I have used the same set up without the kick back fence to cut the slot
for the pieces to glue up a table top.* It takes a little longer, but
like the end grain cut they are precisely aligned to the piece.* If I
were doing this a lot I would work up a jig.

The system is a little difficult to cut the slots in a 4X8 piece of
plywood ;-)

PS: I use the 1/8" X 1 7/8 slot cutter and the Veritas mini Biscuits
from Lee Valley that are designed for an 1 7/8 slot.

They fit nicely into a 1X2 board

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Old December 19th 20, 04:09 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 21:10:57 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino
wrote:

It's been a while, but I have gotten some good advice here.

https://flic.kr/p/2kgvcD4

I'm recycling some 1.5" thick butcher-block style table top material that I got for free. The piece was a weird shape, something like 15" x 84". I wanted to make it about 41"x26" for a small coffee table, although I haven't decided yet what to put underneath the top.

I cut it in half lengthwise and then ripped it down with a circular saw and straightedge. It was difficult due to a not-great saw, a not-great blade and my not-great skills. I kind of butchered it, even doing the cut in three passes, but I was expecting that. I "jointed" the edge with a router, a straightedge and a straight bit, which worked well.

Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?


A common view is that glue is stronger than the wood. But it
oversimplifies. Just one issue that is usually not considered is that
many commonly used woodworking glues creep if the loads are applied to
encourage it. The dowels will prevent that creep.



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Old December 19th 20, 06:55 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 00:47:33 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:


"Waste of time" has to account for all the side-effects. Once the glue
sets, the glue should be stronger than the wood, so no other fasteners
are needed. But... did the dowels help you assemble it? Did they
maintain alignment for you? I use biscuits for all my glue-ups, despite
trusting the glue, because overall they're worth the effort.


I have a PC plate jointer, used it once and will sell it _cheap_ on
eBay some day I get some time and motivation. I thought it was the
worst abomination I've ever used. It sounds like a Mack truck with an
open exhaust crossed with a locomotive without wheel bearings. The
slot is so loose that I don't see how anyone could use the stupid
thing. It's been sitting on the shelf for years.

So no, I don't think they're a waste of time.


I understood that he was gluing end-grain as well. That never works
well.
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Old December 19th 20, 07:02 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?

On 12/18/2020 11:10 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's been a while, but I have gotten some good advice here.

https://flic.kr/p/2kgvcD4

I'm recycling some 1.5" thick butcher-block style table top material that I got for free. The piece was a weird shape, something like 15" x 84". I wanted to make it about 41"x26" for a small coffee table, although I haven't decided yet what to put underneath the top.

I cut it in half lengthwise and then ripped it down with a circular saw and straightedge. It was difficult due to a not-great saw, a not-great blade and my not-great skills. I kind of butchered it, even doing the cut in three passes, but I was expecting that. I "jointed" the edge with a router, a straightedge and a straight bit, which worked well.

Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?


Absolutely a waste of tome for strength.
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Old December 19th 20, 07:05 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?

On 12/19/2020 12:02 PM, Leon wrote:
On 12/18/2020 11:10 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's been a while, but I have gotten some good advice here.

https://flic.kr/p/2kgvcD4

I'm recycling some 1.5" thick butcher-block style table top material
that I got for free. The piece was a weird shape, something like 15" x
84". I wanted to make it about 41"x26" for a small coffee table,
although I haven't decided yet what to put underneath the top.

I cut it in half lengthwise and then ripped it down with a circular
saw and straightedge. It was difficult due to a not-great saw, a
not-great blade and my not-great skills. I kind of butchered it, even
doing the cut in three passes, but I was expecting that. I "jointed"
the edge with a router, a straightedge and a straight bit, which
worked well.

Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I
decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured
that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and
nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were
the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?


Absolutely a waste of tome for strength.



Instead of dowels on something this massive, just put a clamp over the
joint on each end to insure that both halves are not slipping up or down
after you squeeze them together.
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Old December 19th 20, 09:16 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?

On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 1:05:55 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/19/2020 12:02 PM, Leon wrote:
On 12/18/2020 11:10 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's been a while, but I have gotten some good advice here.

https://flic.kr/p/2kgvcD4

I'm recycling some 1.5" thick butcher-block style table top material
that I got for free. The piece was a weird shape, something like 15" x
84". I wanted to make it about 41"x26" for a small coffee table,
although I haven't decided yet what to put underneath the top.

I cut it in half lengthwise and then ripped it down with a circular
saw and straightedge. It was difficult due to a not-great saw, a
not-great blade and my not-great skills. I kind of butchered it, even
doing the cut in three passes, but I was expecting that. I "jointed"
the edge with a router, a straightedge and a straight bit, which
worked well.

Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I
decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured
that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and
nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were
the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?


Absolutely a waste of tome for strength.

Instead of dowels on something this massive, just put a clamp over the
joint on each end to insure that both halves are not slipping up or down
after you squeeze them together.


Thanks for the replies. I was happy not to have to worry about the alignment, but I suspected that the dowels were not needed for strength.
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Old December 19th 20, 09:29 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default A waste of time?

On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 12:55:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 00:47:33 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:


"Waste of time" has to account for all the side-effects. Once the glue
sets, the glue should be stronger than the wood, so no other fasteners
are needed. But... did the dowels help you assemble it? Did they
maintain alignment for you? I use biscuits for all my glue-ups, despite
trusting the glue, because overall they're worth the effort.

I have a PC plate jointer, used it once and will sell it _cheap_ on
eBay some day I get some time and motivation. I thought it was the
worst abomination I've ever used. It sounds like a Mack truck with an
open exhaust crossed with a locomotive without wheel bearings. The
slot is so loose that I don't see how anyone could use the stupid
thing. It's been sitting on the shelf for years.

So no, I don't think they're a waste of time.

I understood that he was gluing end-grain as well. That never works
well.

Not end grain. Long grain.


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