On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 11:11:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

For me, its not a question of time. It's about stress. I get stressed if I am doing a glue-up that requires jostleing long or heavy pieces. Dowels or dominoes or (pick your own) greatly eliminate stress, especially if you need to use clamps to pull it together in alignment. You don't have to be concerned about the joint slipping around as you try to align it. I like doing things without stress. I'm not going to engage in an argument about strength.

Bob

On 12/19/2020 4:41 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 11:11:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

For me, its not a question of time. It's about stress. I get stressed if I am doing a glue-up that requires jostleing long or heavy pieces. Dowels or dominoes or (pick your own) greatly eliminate stress, especially if you need to use clamps to pull it together in alignment. You don't have to be concerned about the joint slipping around as you try to align it. I like doing things without stress. I'm not going to engage in an argument about strength.

Bob


Depending upon the project, tapping a couple of brads in perpendicular
to the mating surface on one board and then snipping off the head
leaving just a bit of the brad proud will also do the trick.

Spread the glue, position the pieces and slowly clamp them together.
They will not shift.

On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 10:46:26 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 12/19/2020 4:41 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 11:11:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

For me, its not a question of time. It's about stress. I get stressed if I am doing a glue-up that requires jostleing long or heavy pieces. Dowels or dominoes or (pick your own) greatly eliminate stress, especially if you need to use clamps to pull it together in alignment. You don't have to be concerned about the joint slipping around as you try to align it. I like doing things without stress. I'm not going to engage in an argument about strength.

Bob

Depending upon the project, tapping a couple of brads in perpendicular
to the mating surface on one board and then snipping off the head
leaving just a bit of the brad proud will also do the trick.

Spread the glue, position the pieces and slowly clamp them together.
They will not shift.

So first, that sounds pretty clever. But that only stops the pieces from shifting from whatever position they were in when they first "mate". The dowels also help the pieces mate in the proper alignment, a boon for a guy like me who is low on experience.

On Sunday, December 20, 2020 at 8:58:19 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 10:46:26 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 12/19/2020 4:41 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 11:11:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

For me, its not a question of time. It's about stress. I get stressed if I am doing a glue-up that requires jostleing long or heavy pieces. Dowels or dominoes or (pick your own) greatly eliminate stress, especially if you need to use clamps to pull it together in alignment. You don't have to be concerned about the joint slipping around as you try to align it. I like doing things without stress. I'm not going to engage in an argument about strength.

Bob

Depending upon the project, tapping a couple of brads in perpendicular
to the mating surface on one board and then snipping off the head
leaving just a bit of the brad proud will also do the trick.

Spread the glue, position the pieces and slowly clamp them together.
They will not shift.
So first, that sounds pretty clever. But that only stops the pieces from shifting from whatever position they were in when they first "mate". The dowels also help the pieces mate in the proper alignment, a boon for a guy like me who is low on experience.

I agree. The brads will hold for some cases but they do not guarantee initial alignment, especially if the glue up is anything but flat on the table. A lot of my joints are done with simple butt joints and dominoes (no rebates or dados). That's just my simple style for things that really don't show.

Bob

On 12/20/2020 4:53 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Sunday, December 20, 2020 at 8:58:19 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 10:46:26 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 12/19/2020 4:41 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 11:11:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

For me, its not a question of time. It's about stress. I get stressed if I am doing a glue-up that requires jostleing long or heavy pieces. Dowels or dominoes or (pick your own) greatly eliminate stress, especially if you need to use clamps to pull it together in alignment. You don't have to be concerned about the joint slipping around as you try to align it. I like doing things without stress. I'm not going to engage in an argument about strength.

Bob

Depending upon the project, tapping a couple of brads in perpendicular
to the mating surface on one board and then snipping off the head
leaving just a bit of the brad proud will also do the trick.

Spread the glue, position the pieces and slowly clamp them together.
They will not shift.
So first, that sounds pretty clever. But that only stops the pieces from shifting from whatever position they were in when they first "mate". The dowels also help the pieces mate in the proper alignment, a boon for a guy like me who is low on experience.

I agree. The brads will hold for some cases but they do not guarantee initial alignment, especially if the glue up is anything but flat on the table. A lot of my joints are done with simple butt joints and dominoes (no rebates or dados). That's just my simple style for things that really don't show.

Bob


Yep, not ideal for all (probably not for most) situations, but it's one
more way to skin the cat. If every solution to a problem is a hammer,
you ain't trying!

On 12/19/2020 4:41 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 11:11:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

For me, its not a question of time. It's about stress. I get stressed if I am doing a glue-up that requires jostleing long or heavy pieces. Dowels or dominoes or (pick your own) greatly eliminate stress, especially if you need to use clamps to pull it together in alignment. You don't have to be concerned about the joint slipping around as you try to align it. I like doing things without stress. I'm not going to engage in an argument about strength.

Bob



Some things get better with age and a repeated process.

For a long time I never noticed "new car smell" and now "wood smell",
and now gluing does not stress me.


The problems with dowels is that they have to be dead on perfectly
aligned or the clamping procedure becomes difficult. With Dominos,
similar to biscuits, I cut an exact fit for one side and the elongated
mortise for the mating side., no stress! ;~)

On 12/20/2020 5:53 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Sunday, December 20, 2020 at 8:58:19 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 10:46:26 PM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 12/19/2020 4:41 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 11:11:02 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

For me, its not a question of time. It's about stress. I get stressed if I am doing a glue-up that requires jostleing long or heavy pieces. Dowels or dominoes or (pick your own) greatly eliminate stress, especially if you need to use clamps to pull it together in alignment. You don't have to be concerned about the joint slipping around as you try to align it. I like doing things without stress. I'm not going to engage in an argument about strength.

Bob

Depending upon the project, tapping a couple of brads in perpendicular
to the mating surface on one board and then snipping off the head
leaving just a bit of the brad proud will also do the trick.

Spread the glue, position the pieces and slowly clamp them together.
They will not shift.
So first, that sounds pretty clever. But that only stops the pieces from shifting from whatever position they were in when they first "mate". The dowels also help the pieces mate in the proper alignment, a boon for a guy like me who is low on experience.

I agree. The brads will hold for some cases but they do not guarantee initial alignment, especially if the glue up is anything but flat on the table. A lot of my joints are done with simple butt joints and dominoes (no rebates or dados). That's just my simple style for things that really don't show.

Bob

I tried this for a while before I got the Slot cutter bit for
biscuiting. Problem I found, while theoretically it should go straight
into the other piece, it depended on the hardness of the grain.

The different parts of the grain are of different densities. If the
hard part was at an angle to the fact of the cut, the nail would raise
up a little, miss aligning the pieces.

On Saturday, December 19, 2020 at 12:11:02 AM UTC-5, wrote:
It's been a while, but I have gotten some good advice here.

https://flic.kr/p/2kgvcD4

I'm recycling some 1.5" thick butcher-block style table top material that I got for free. The piece was a weird shape, something like 15" x 84". I wanted to make it about 41"x26" for a small coffee table, although I haven't decided yet what to put underneath the top.

I cut it in half lengthwise and then ripped it down with a circular saw and straightedge. It was difficult due to a not-great saw, a not-great blade and my not-great skills. I kind of butchered it, even doing the cut in three passes, but I was expecting that. I "jointed" the edge with a router, a straightedge and a straight bit, which worked well.

Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

I've used biscuits, dowels and dominoes but don't really recommend them for most flat-panel glue-ups. That said, if your milling is not great (less than flat, straight and square) dowels could maybe provide a bit of insurance. For most panel glue-ups I just set them on the clamps and adjust them a bit with my thumb and forefinger to align. If it's a larger panel I almost always use slightly curved cauls to hold them in alignment a bit while clamping up. I'll also use an f-clamp or two to pull the ends into alignment if necessary. If I'm really struggling with a glue-up it tends to mean I've not done my milling very well. I'm not some neanderthal that scoffs at anything other than rub joints, but wrenching on clamps to pull boards into alignment for gluing is not something I'd encourage. Lastly, if you use biscuits be sure you leave enough trim allowance on the end so you don't cut into your slots. And if you do decide you don't like that panel layout you'll have slots to deal with if you cut it apart.
JP

On 12/19/2020 12:10 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Anyway, despite a heck of a lot of long-grain surface to glue, I decided to use dowels to fasten the two pieces together. I figured that - if nothing else - they would make the alignment easy and nothing would slip when I put the clamps on. It worked well, but were the dowels a waste of time, at least for strength?

I've glued up hundreds if not thousands of panels over the years. When
I first began, I used dowels, full length slots with plywood splines,
even all thread rods. I quickly learned that none of that was needed at
all, and just made an easy task more difficult.

The important part is the boards need to be flat, joints smooth and
square. Minor adjustments can be made with cauls if needed, but your
better off if your wood is milled flat and square.

Using dowels is a task in it's self, and if alignment isn't perfect,
then the glue up will not be perfect. Much easier w/o dowels. Biscuits
are easy to use I guess, but if you don't need them for alignment, no
reason to use them. Glue itself is stronger than the wood.

Were dowels a waste of time... Probably not, you at least learned how to
use dowels and get things lined up. Consider it a learning experience.

I recently cut up an old table top I glued up 50 years ago for a lathe
project. Towards the end of the turning F*&%ing dowels turned up in the
middle of turning, spoiling the turning. At first I wondered what was
happening as a weird defect turned up in the wood.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 10:35:11 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
On 12/19/2020 12:10 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:



Were dowels a waste of time... Probably not, you at least learned how to
use dowels and get things lined up. Consider it a learning experience.

I was thinking that too, even as I did it. Thanks for the advice.