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Old November 26th 20, 03:59 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Stair help

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 9:15:11 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:42:55 AM UTC-5, Just Wondering wrote:
On 11/25/2020 6:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 7:36:51 PM UTC-5, Just Wondering wrote:
On 11/25/2020 2:13 PM, swalker wrote:
I need to replace a set of steps that have a rise of 25" and a width
of 53".

The stairs land on a sloped concrete carport and the slope across the
53" is 2 inches.

How do I approach this?

The current stairs have 3 steps and then a small step to the porch.
Totally unacceptable and dangerous.

Thanks for any advice.
The World Wide Web is your friend.

How to Build Stairs
https://www.wikihow.com/Build-Stairs

How To Build Stairs in 3 Easy Steps
https://www.popularmechanics.com/hom...-build-stairs/

Stair Calculator
https://concalculator.com/stair-calculator/

Which one of them explained how to deal with the sloped floor?

I assume you would measure/cut the risers so that the bottom tread
would give the right stair rise where the staircase meets the floor,
and cut the bottom of the stringer to match the slope.

swalker said: "I need to replace a set of steps that have a rise of 25" and
a width of 53". The stairs land on a sloped concrete carport and the slope
across the 53" is 2 inches."
Cutting the bottom of the stringer to match the slope is a given. It's the *rise*
of the first step that is the real issue here.

As my grandfather used to say "The feet remember." That's why, ideally, we
want the rise of each step to be the same. In this situation the rise of the
first step cannot be even across the 53" because the floor is sloped.

A typical set of stairs with a 25" rise and a 10" step run (tread depth) would
use a step rise of 6.25". (That may result in too much run for the OP's situation,
but that doesn't matter for the explanation of the general concept.)

53" is a wide staircase and we don't know where that 25" rise was measured.

So using a rise of 6.25", we now need to account for the 2" slope of the floor.

If the 25" rise was measured at the center of the steps, then one end of the
first step would need to use a 5.25" rise and the other would need to use
7.25". (Level step, unlevel floor)

If the 25" rise was measured at either end of the 53", then the opposite end
of the first step would need a rise of either 8.25" or 4.25".

Bottom line is that the bottom step needs to be level but since the floor is
sloped, the rise can not be the same across the 53".

Now let's bring in the users. Where will those users walk on the steps most
of the time? If they will usually use the middle of the steps, then the middle
of the first step should use the 6.25" rise and let the ends be higher and
lower. That way, the rise will *usually* be the same for the users for all steps.

If the users will usually walk up either the left or right of the stairs, then use
the 6.25" rise on that side and let the other end be higher or lower depending
on which direction the slope runs.

In this situation, where the slope of the floor forces an uneven rise across the
first step, the next best thing is to set the rise to be consistent in the area
where the stairs will be used the most.


....or level the floor at the bottom of the stairs and let the floor itself slope away
from the stairs in gentle manner over a long-ish distance.

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Old November 26th 20, 06:04 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 3,270
Default Stair help

DerbyDad03 on Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:59:42 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 9:15:11 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 3:42:55 AM UTC-5, Just Wondering wrote:
On 11/25/2020 6:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 7:36:51 PM UTC-5, Just Wondering wrote:
On 11/25/2020 2:13 PM, swalker wrote:
I need to replace a set of steps that have a rise of 25" and a width
of 53".

The stairs land on a sloped concrete carport and the slope across the
53" is 2 inches.

How do I approach this?

The current stairs have 3 steps and then a small step to the porch.
Totally unacceptable and dangerous.

Thanks for any advice.
The World Wide Web is your friend.

How to Build Stairs
https://www.wikihow.com/Build-Stairs

How To Build Stairs in 3 Easy Steps
https://www.popularmechanics.com/hom...-build-stairs/

Stair Calculator
https://concalculator.com/stair-calculator/

Which one of them explained how to deal with the sloped floor?
I assume you would measure/cut the risers so that the bottom tread
would give the right stair rise where the staircase meets the floor,
and cut the bottom of the stringer to match the slope.

swalker said: "I need to replace a set of steps that have a rise of 25" and
a width of 53". The stairs land on a sloped concrete carport and the slope
across the 53" is 2 inches."
Cutting the bottom of the stringer to match the slope is a given. It's the *rise*
of the first step that is the real issue here.

As my grandfather used to say "The feet remember." That's why, ideally, we
want the rise of each step to be the same. In this situation the rise of the
first step cannot be even across the 53" because the floor is sloped.

A typical set of stairs with a 25" rise and a 10" step run (tread depth) would
use a step rise of 6.25". (That may result in too much run for the OP's situation,
but that doesn't matter for the explanation of the general concept.)

53" is a wide staircase and we don't know where that 25" rise was measured.

So using a rise of 6.25", we now need to account for the 2" slope of the floor.

If the 25" rise was measured at the center of the steps, then one end of the
first step would need to use a 5.25" rise and the other would need to use
7.25". (Level step, unlevel floor)

If the 25" rise was measured at either end of the 53", then the opposite end
of the first step would need a rise of either 8.25" or 4.25".

Bottom line is that the bottom step needs to be level but since the floor is
sloped, the rise can not be the same across the 53".

Now let's bring in the users. Where will those users walk on the steps most
of the time? If they will usually use the middle of the steps, then the middle
of the first step should use the 6.25" rise and let the ends be higher and
lower. That way, the rise will *usually* be the same for the users for all steps.

If the users will usually walk up either the left or right of the stairs, then use
the 6.25" rise on that side and let the other end be higher or lower depending
on which direction the slope runs.

In this situation, where the slope of the floor forces an uneven rise across the
first step, the next best thing is to set the rise to be consistent in the area
where the stairs will be used the most.


...or level the floor at the bottom of the stairs and let the floor itself slope away
from the stairs in gentle manner over a long-ish distance.


What he said.

There are two options: either the bottom riser is "off" and uneven
at the sides, or you make a landing/platform which is level, and all
the stairs are the same height going up. Yes, the later option means
that you have a landing which varies from [thickness of landing
boards] to 2" + [thickness of landing boards]. Your other option is
to replace the carport slab with one which doesn't slope. Or just cut
out the area at the bottom and make a flat and level space for the
staircase.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #13   Report Post  
Old November 26th 20, 06:04 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 3,270
Default Stair help

DerbyDad03 on Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:32:58 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 6:45:51 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:
swalker on Wed, 25 Nov 2020 15:13:34 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
I need to replace a set of steps that have a rise of 25" and a width
of 53".

The stairs land on a sloped concrete carport and the slope across the
53" is 2 inches.

How do I approach this?

The current stairs have 3 steps and then a small step to the porch.
Totally unacceptable and dangerous.

Thanks for any advice.

Make any risers supports come out even. Better to have four
"short" steps, or three "long" ones.

If the steps are not able to meet the concrete "square" (that is
there is a slope left to right as you face the stairs), you might want
to just put a landing on the concrete and work to that.


Either the first step will not have an even rise or the platform will not
have an even rise.


If you insist on having steps of a rise of 6 inches, you will have
a sneaker step which is too tall or too short. A tripping hazard.
My suggestion is to make a landing at the bottom which is level on
the top, with one side resting on the concrete and the other side is
supported two inches above the concrete.
Measure from the top of that landing to where the steps end. I.e,
25 - 1.25 (assuming 5/4 ply for the landing = 23.75" Divide that by
3,4,5,6, or however many steps you want to have. Now you have your
rise (7.9166, 5.9375", 4.75", 3.9583" respectively), Layout your
risers accordingly. I'd go for five steps, and do not forget to allow
for the thickness of the top step.



What's the point of the platform?


to provide a flat, level landing on the sloped slab. It will be
safer than having a "odd" riser. As the saying goes "the feet
remember" - a step which is off is a tripping hazard.

You could replace the slab, or put in a concrete landing so that
people will not be stepping down a different distance depending on
which side of the stairs they come down.


--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
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Old November 26th 20, 06:39 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 1,289
Default Stair help

On 11/26/2020 11:04 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
DerbyDad03 on Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:32:58 -0800

....

What's the point of the platform?


to provide a flat, level landing on the sloped slab. It will be
safer than having a "odd" riser. As the saying goes "the feet
remember" - a step which is off is a tripping hazard.

You could replace the slab, or put in a concrete landing so that
people will not be stepping down a different distance depending on
which side of the stairs they come down.


+1

An tapered edge there instead of a square corner would also help as
would a hazard indicator like a colored section to highlight the
discontinuity.

Sounds as though the slab should have been poured initially with two
grades; if were new construction I'd at least consider to go back to the
builder for redress...

Trying to minimize the tread height difference from one side to another
is better than nothing, certainly.

--


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Old November 26th 20, 06:51 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 14,499
Default Stair help

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 12:02:58 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:
DerbyDad03 on Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:32:58 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 6:45:51 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:
swalker on Wed, 25 Nov 2020 15:13:34 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
I need to replace a set of steps that have a rise of 25" and a width
of 53".

The stairs land on a sloped concrete carport and the slope across the
53" is 2 inches.

How do I approach this?

The current stairs have 3 steps and then a small step to the porch.
Totally unacceptable and dangerous.

Thanks for any advice.
Make any risers supports come out even. Better to have four
"short" steps, or three "long" ones.

If the steps are not able to meet the concrete "square" (that is
there is a slope left to right as you face the stairs), you might want
to just put a landing on the concrete and work to that.


Either the first step will not have an even rise or the platform will not
have an even rise.

If you insist on having steps of a rise of 6 inches, you will have
a sneaker step which is too tall or too short. A tripping hazard.
My suggestion is to make a landing at the bottom which is level on
the top, with one side resting on the concrete and the other side is
supported two inches above the concrete.
Measure from the top of that landing to where the steps end. I.e,
25 - 1.25 (assuming 5/4 ply for the landing = 23.75" Divide that by
3,4,5,6, or however many steps you want to have. Now you have your
rise (7.9166, 5.9375", 4.75", 3.9583" respectively), Layout your
risers accordingly. I'd go for five steps, and do not forget to allow
for the thickness of the top step.

What's the point of the platform?

to provide a flat, level landing on the sloped slab. It will be
safer than having a "odd" riser. As the saying goes "the feet
remember" - a step which is off is a tripping hazard.

You could replace the slab, or put in a concrete landing so that
people will not be stepping down a different distance depending on
which side of the stairs they come down.


As far as I can tell, all you did was move the uneven rise to outboard
edge of the platform, while at the same time extending the run of the
overall structure. That might work, assuming that there is room for the
extended run into the carport. If the platform is long enough, like 2 or 3
paces, then the uneven rise might not be an issue. The feet will have
forgotten (to some extent) the rise of the actual steps. However, if the
platform is too short, then it basically becomes an extra step with an
uneven rise.

The available space for the run is what will ultimately determine the
best method.


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Old November 26th 20, 06:59 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Stair help

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 12:39:38 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 11/26/2020 11:04 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
DerbyDad03 on Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:32:58 -0800

...
What's the point of the platform?


to provide a flat, level landing on the sloped slab. It will be
safer than having a "odd" riser. As the saying goes "the feet
remember" - a step which is off is a tripping hazard.

You could replace the slab, or put in a concrete landing so that
people will not be stepping down a different distance depending on
which side of the stairs they come down.

+1

An tapered edge there instead of a square corner would also help as
would a hazard indicator like a colored section to highlight the
discontinuity.

Sounds as though the slab should have been poured initially with two
grades; if were new construction I'd at least consider to go back to the
builder for redress...

Trying to minimize the tread height difference from one side to another
is better than nothing, certainly.

--


One of my earlier suggestions was to pour a level landing and then
let the "pad" gradually slope away from the bottom step.

While that would extend the run in a certain manner, a poured slab could
be driven/parked on, which a wooden platform would prevent.

It would really help if we knew if there was an issue with having available
room for a longer run. For all we know, the reason that there is currently
"3 steps and then a small step to the porch" could be because of limited
space for the run of the stairs.

Pictures might help too.
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Old November 26th 20, 08:02 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 1,289
Default Stair help

On 11/26/2020 11:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 12:39:38 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 11/26/2020 11:04 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
DerbyDad03 on Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:32:58 -0800

...
What's the point of the platform?

to provide a flat, level landing on the sloped slab. It will be
safer than having a "odd" riser. As the saying goes "the feet
remember" - a step which is off is a tripping hazard.

You could replace the slab, or put in a concrete landing so that
people will not be stepping down a different distance depending on
which side of the stairs they come down.

+1

An tapered edge there instead of a square corner would also help as
would a hazard indicator like a colored section to highlight the
discontinuity.

Sounds as though the slab should have been poured initially with two
grades; if were new construction I'd at least consider to go back to the
builder for redress...

Trying to minimize the tread height difference from one side to another
is better than nothing, certainly.

--


One of my earlier suggestions was to pour a level landing and then
let the "pad" gradually slope away from the bottom step.


But later than this one...

While that would extend the run in a certain manner, a poured slab could
be driven/parked on, which a wooden platform would prevent.


Not necessarily, no.

It would really help if we knew if there was an issue with having available
room for a longer run. For all we know, the reason that there is currently
"3 steps and then a small step to the porch" could be because of limited
space for the run of the stairs.


"The stairs land on a sloped concrete carport..."

--

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Old November 26th 20, 09:27 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default Stair help

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:02:45 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 11/26/2020 11:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 12:39:38 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 11/26/2020 11:04 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
DerbyDad03 on Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:32:58 -0800
...
What's the point of the platform?

to provide a flat, level landing on the sloped slab. It will be
safer than having a "odd" riser. As the saying goes "the feet
remember" - a step which is off is a tripping hazard.

You could replace the slab, or put in a concrete landing so that
people will not be stepping down a different distance depending on
which side of the stairs they come down.
+1

An tapered edge there instead of a square corner would also help as
would a hazard indicator like a colored section to highlight the
discontinuity.

Sounds as though the slab should have been poured initially with two
grades; if were new construction I'd at least consider to go back to the
builder for redress...

Trying to minimize the tread height difference from one side to another
is better than nothing, certainly.

--


One of my earlier suggestions was to pour a level landing and then
let the "pad" gradually slope away from the bottom step.

But later than this one...


The time stamp on my "let the floor itself slope away
from the stairs in gentle manner" shows 9:59AM.

While that would extend the run in a certain manner, a poured slab could
be driven/parked on, which a wooden platform would prevent.

Not necessarily, no.


Not necessarily, true. As I've said multiple times, we don't know enough about
the layout of the carport to know if that would work.

It would really help if we knew if there was an issue with having available
room for a longer run. For all we know, the reason that there is currently
"3 steps and then a small step to the porch" could be because of limited
space for the run of the stairs.

"The stairs land on a sloped concrete carport..."


Yep...that's basically what all of these posts have been trying to address.
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Old November 26th 20, 11:53 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 109
Default Stair help

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 15:13:34 -0600, swalker wrote:

I need to replace a set of steps that have a rise of 25" and a width
of 53".

The stairs land on a sloped concrete carport and the slope across the
53" is 2 inches.

How do I approach this?

The current stairs have 3 steps and then a small step to the porch.
Totally unacceptable and dangerous.

Thanks for any advice.


After reading all the options offered I think the one that would work
best for me is to place the 1st step on the concrete at the high end,
which is left when viewed from the bottom, level it and work up from
there. Traffic on the steps goes up toward the right side where the
hand rail is.

Thanks for all the advice and options.
  #20   Report Post  
Old November 27th 20, 12:45 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 1,289
Default Stair help

On 11/26/2020 2:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:02:45 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 11/26/2020 11:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 12:39:38 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 11/26/2020 11:04 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
DerbyDad03 on Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:32:58 -0800
...
What's the point of the platform?

to provide a flat, level landing on the sloped slab. It will be
safer than having a "odd" riser. As the saying goes "the feet
remember" - a step which is off is a tripping hazard.

You could replace the slab, or put in a concrete landing so that
people will not be stepping down a different distance depending on
which side of the stairs they come down.
+1

An tapered edge there instead of a square corner would also help as
would a hazard indicator like a colored section to highlight the
discontinuity.

Sounds as though the slab should have been poured initially with two
grades; if were new construction I'd at least consider to go back to the
builder for redress...

Trying to minimize the tread height difference from one side to another
is better than nothing, certainly.

--

One of my earlier suggestions was to pour a level landing and then
let the "pad" gradually slope away from the bottom step.

But later than this one...


The time stamp on my "let the floor itself slope away
from the stairs in gentle manner" shows 9:59AM.


Yeah, and this subthread began yestidday...

While that would extend the run in a certain manner, a poured slab could
be driven/parked on, which a wooden platform would prevent.

Not necessarily, no.


Not necessarily, true. As I've said multiple times, we don't know enough about
the layout of the carport to know if that would work.

....

If you can put a slab there to drive on, I garontee I can do it with wood.

You've only got 2" to make up -- a tubax and half-inch ply makes the
height and certainly can be driven on/over.

--



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