I'd love to source all of my precision measuring devices from
Starrett, but at double and triple the price of almost identical tools
from overseas I'm having a tough time mustering up enough patriotism
to justify the additional cash outlay.

I'll be honest, I *trust* Starrett, and I'd like to use their products
where I can in the shop - not only for the whole "buy American" thing,
but for the peace of mind that comes from knowing that I can eliminate
measuring errors from the list of causes of my myriad ****ups. Anyone
have any experience negotiating directly with Starrett to get more
competitive pricing? Just wondering...

Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer... Dad's a
Canuck so I guess I can feel ok buying (and buying, and buying...)
from them!!

JP
*************************
NAFTA friendly.

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 22:38:13 -0400, Jay Pique
wrote:

I'd love to source all of my precision measuring devices from
Starrett, but at double and triple the price of almost identical tools
from overseas I'm having a tough time mustering up enough patriotism
to justify the additional cash outlay.

I'll be honest, I *trust* Starrett, and I'd like to use their products
where I can in the shop - not only for the whole "buy American" thing,
but for the peace of mind that comes from knowing that I can eliminate
measuring errors from the list of causes of my myriad ****ups. Anyone
have any experience negotiating directly with Starrett to get more
competitive pricing? Just wondering...

Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer... Dad's a
Canuck so I guess I can feel ok buying (and buying, and buying...)
from them!!

JP
*************************
NAFTA friendly.


I just ordered a Starrett combination square from Amazon for $164.99
today (Ouch!). With $200 or more there is a $25 promotion on tools.
And they have free shipping.

"Jay Pique" wrote in message

Anyone
have any experience negotiating directly with Starrett to get more
competitive pricing? Just wondering...

They don't sell direct.

They do, however, have an overstock page on their web page. They are sold
out of the 60" straight edges that went for $160. But for that same price,
you can get a vibrometer.

Phisherman repeats:

Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer... Dad's a
Canuck so I guess I can feel ok buying (and buying, and buying...)
from them!!

JP

OK! I knew they were working on the straightedge. I'll have to see if my boss
will free up a check in the next few days. That price is right on the steel
model. Aluminum, too, but I'm clumsy enough to screw that up, so will go with
steel.

Charlie Self
"I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he
excites among his opponents." Sir Winston Churchill

Jay Pique wrote:
Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer...


Once upon a time they had a straight edge. It left. Now
it's back? How long is it? Got a URL?

UA100, with so many questions...

On 04 Sep 2004 09:13:01 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
calmly ranted:

Phisherman repeats:

Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer... Dad's a
Canuck so I guess I can feel ok buying (and buying, and buying...)
from them!!

JP

OK! I knew they were working on the straightedge. I'll have to see if my boss
will free up a check in the next few days. That price is right on the steel
model. Aluminum, too, but I'm clumsy enough to screw that up, so will go with
steel.

Now watch. UPS will show up with a 2' long U-shaped package
marked "Carefully folded to avoid damage to contents."


----------------------------------------------------------
--== EAT RIGHT...KEEP FIT...DIE ANYWAY ==--
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html - Schnazzy Tees online
----------------------------------------------------------

In article , Jay Pique wrote:
I'd love to source all of my precision measuring devices from
Starrett, but at double and triple the price of almost identical tools

I think the key word there is "almost". Compare -- I'm choosing my words
carefully here -- the guaranteed accuracy of the Starrett tools with the
claimed accuracy of the imported competition.

from overseas I'm having a tough time mustering up enough patriotism
to justify the additional cash outlay.

They *are* pricy, I'll grant you that. But we're back to the old maxim,
discussed here many times: buy the best, cry once; buy cheap, cry every time
you use it.

I'll be honest, I *trust* Starrett, and I'd like to use their products
where I can in the shop - not only for the whole "buy American" thing,
but for the peace of mind that comes from knowing that I can eliminate
measuring errors from the list of causes of my myriad ****ups. Anyone
have any experience negotiating directly with Starrett to get more
competitive pricing? Just wondering...

AFAIK, Starrett does not sell direct. But there's a wide range of prices for
the same tool, depending on the retailer. Check Google, Froogle, and eBay.
Auctions and garage sales may be your friends, too -- a long time ago, digging
through a carton of miscellaneous stuff at an auction, I found at the bottom
of it a wooden box containing a Browne & Sharp micrometer. Put that sucker
right back where I found it, too, at the bottom under everything. Paid a buck
and a half for the carton. :-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Unisaw A100 wrote:

Jay Pique wrote:
Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer...


Once upon a time they had a straight edge. It left. Now
it's back? How long is it? Got a URL?

UA100, with so many questions...

http://tinyurl.com/5gfww for the straightedges.

They've also got a new large sholder plane and a very cool roller
stand, which can be seen here - http://tinyurl.com/5ytzf .

The roller stand looks to be very well thought out and sturdily made.
It's now on the list.

JP

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 06:18:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 04 Sep 2004 09:13:01 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
calmly ranted:

Phisherman repeats:

Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer... Dad's a
Canuck so I guess I can feel ok buying (and buying, and buying...)
from them!!

JP

OK! I knew they were working on the straightedge. I'll have to see if my boss
will free up a check in the next few days. That price is right on the steel
model. Aluminum, too, but I'm clumsy enough to screw that up, so will go with
steel.

Now watch. UPS will show up with a 2' long U-shaped package
marked "Carefully folded to avoid damage to contents."


UPS can mess up anything. So I believe your exaggeration could in
fact come true.

I once ordered a bunch of mesquite boards from Texas. Tracked 'em
across the US, they got to my local delivery office and got scheduled
for delivery. Yippee. later that same day, they got marked as
damaged in shipment, return to sender. WTF!!!!

I was ****ed beyond belief, and wondered how they'd gotten broken.
The driver brought them out anyway, of his own initiative. Turns out
someone at UPS spilled a lot of used motor oil on them. How
thoroughly incompetent of them. Since they were mostly wrapped in
cardboard and were rough, what oil did touch them got planed off
anyway.

Thanks to the initiative of their driver, who must know *something*
about woodworking, he saved the day for me. He should have gotten an
attaboy for that, but probably received discipline for violating the
company line.

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 22:38:13 -0400, Jay Pique
wrote:

I'd love to source all of my precision measuring devices from
Starrett, but at double and triple the price of almost identical tools
from overseas I'm having a tough time mustering up enough patriotism
to justify the additional cash outlay.

I'll be honest, I *trust* Starrett, and I'd like to use their products
where I can in the shop - not only for the whole "buy American" thing,
but for the peace of mind that comes from knowing that I can eliminate
measuring errors from the list of causes of my myriad ****ups. Anyone
have any experience negotiating directly with Starrett to get more
competitive pricing? Just wondering...

Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer... Dad's a
Canuck so I guess I can feel ok buying (and buying, and buying...)
from them!!

JP
*************************
NAFTA friendly.

I suffered with the same decision. I chose to go with Mitutoyo. I've
got one of their dial calipers and a combination square with a center
finder and protractor head. Love that protractor head.

However, if Starett wasn't so far out their price wise, I'd get that.
But for a hobbyist woodworker, it's just too much.

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:43:16 GMT, Lazarus Long
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 22:38:13 -0400, Jay Pique
wrote:

I'd love to source all of my precision measuring devices from
Starrett, but at double and triple the price of almost identical tools
from overseas I'm having a tough time mustering up enough patriotism
to justify the additional cash outlay.

I'll be honest, I *trust* Starrett, and I'd like to use their products
where I can in the shop - not only for the whole "buy American" thing,
but for the peace of mind that comes from knowing that I can eliminate
measuring errors from the list of causes of my myriad ****ups. Anyone
have any experience negotiating directly with Starrett to get more
competitive pricing? Just wondering...

Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer... Dad's a
Canuck so I guess I can feel ok buying (and buying, and buying...)
from them!!

JP
*************************
NAFTA friendly.

I suffered with the same decision. I chose to go with Mitutoyo. I've
got one of their dial calipers and a combination square with a center
finder and protractor head. Love that protractor head.

However, if Starett wasn't so far out their price wise, I'd get that.
But for a hobbyist woodworker, it's just too much.

Heh - that's almost exactly what I said to the guy at the Starrett
booth last week. I was nice about it, and said that I'd prefer to buy
Starrett, but with Mitutoyo at half the cost it's tough to justify.
He shrugged.

JP

http://tinyurl.com/5gfww for the straightedges.

Looking for something a wee bit longer/jointer set up.

They've also got a new large sholder plane and a very cool roller
stand, which can be seen here - http://tinyurl.com/5ytzf .

The roller stand looks to be very well thought out and sturdily made.
It's now on the list.

Can you set up a jointer with it?

UA100

The measuring tool is only half the battle. How you use it and how you
cut are also important. Point being, the best tool in the world is
useless if you don't use it correctly or you can't cut worth a rats ass.

Grandpa

Jay Pique wrote:
I'd love to source all of my precision measuring devices from
Starrett, but at double and triple the price of almost identical tools
from overseas I'm having a tough time mustering up enough patriotism
to justify the additional cash outlay.

Larry Jaques wrote:

Now watch. UPS will show up with a 2' long U-shaped package
marked "Carefully folded to avoid damage to contents."

Please don't joke like this. Recently, I ordered some 3/4" square
x 6' metal bars (3 aluminum, 2 brass). They were shipped via UPS
in a long square box that arrived with creases in the cardboard.
I thought "Yeah, sure" and opened the boxes. And sure enough, one
of the brass bars was bowed just under a half inch.

How do they do that?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

Jay Pique wrote in message . ..
I'd love to source all of my precision measuring devices from
Starrett, but at double and triple the price of almost identical tools
from overseas I'm having a tough time mustering up enough patriotism
to justify the additional cash outlay.

I'll be honest, I *trust* Starrett, and I'd like to use their products
where I can in the shop - not only for the whole "buy American" thing,
but for the peace of mind that comes from knowing that I can eliminate
measuring errors from the list of causes of my myriad ****ups. Anyone
have any experience negotiating directly with Starrett to get more
competitive pricing? Just wondering...

Oh yeah - it looks like Lee Valley is making straightedges now. A
four or six footer would sure be nice for the jointer... Dad's a
Canuck so I guess I can feel ok buying (and buying, and buying...)
from them!!

JP
*************************
NAFTA friendly.

I have had good luck at the Pawn Shops finding deals on Starrett.
Mike

I haven't checked the many other replies in the thread, so this may
have been covered already. Starret's been around since 1880. Many of
the tools a woodworker might use are readily available used. While
some may be damaged and unusable, most were owned and cared for by
machinists whose living depended on their accuracy. Many of the used
Starrett tools I own have long outlived their original owners.

Most machinists' tools were made to measure .001" or less. Even if
not quite so percise, I don't know of too many woodworkers more
accurate than .01".

While they were certianly expensive when purchased new (as now) their
current value can greatly exceed the current cost on the used (or
previously owned) market.

Alan

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:44:30 -0500, Morris Dovey
wrote:

How do they do that?

I once mail-ordered a rally car rollcage.
Securicor bent it in shipping.

They would have to try to do that. Try hard.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:44:30 -0500, Morris Dovey
wrote:

How do they do that?

I once mail-ordered a rally car rollcage.
Securicor bent it in shipping.

On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 15:11:14 -0700, "CW" no adddress@spam free.com
wrote:

They would have to try to do that. Try hard.

Well, not all _that_ hard. It's not a "cage" until you have it
fastened down to the floorpan. They managed to bend one of the legs
that stuck out on its own.

Still 2" steel tube though.

Buying woodworking tools is like buying anything else...like shoes,
clothes, cars, etc. You're buying quality, top shelf stuff, but you're
also buying the brand name and reputation of the company too. That's
why Starret can, and rightly so, charge more for their tools.

Layne

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 13:02:33 -0400, Jay Pique
wrote:

I suffered with the same decision. I chose to go with Mitutoyo. I've
got one of their dial calipers and a combination square with a center
finder and protractor head. Love that protractor head.

However, if Starett wasn't so far out their price wise, I'd get that.
But for a hobbyist woodworker, it's just too much.

Heh - that's almost exactly what I said to the guy at the Starrett
booth last week. I was nice about it, and said that I'd prefer to buy
Starrett, but with Mitutoyo at half the cost it's tough to justify.
He shrugged.

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 18:58:39 -0700, Layne wrote:

That's why Starret can, and rightly so, charge more for their tools.

Compared to Mitutoyo ?

IMHO, Starrett are doomed - like so many US and UK manufacturing
companies. No, I don't know an answer, this is just an observation.
But when I can buy a $100 Starrett tool for $5 from Lucky Golden
Hedgehog (and it's rubbish) or for $50 from Mitutoyo and it's as good
if not better than Starrett's, then why _should_ I buy the US version?

You can talk about "loyalty" all you like, but sometimes that just
becomes an excuse for a stupid buying decision. HP's printers have
been rubbish for some years, and this is the company that gave us the
LaserJet (my 15 year old LaserJet is still running, my 2 year old
inkjet is scrap)

More importantly, you can't run a company on loyalty alone. Even if
some of your customers still buy "for old times sake", the majority of
them are fickle and will move away.

--
Smert' spamionam

Mike at American Sycamore wrote:
I have had good luck at the Pawn Shops finding deals on Starrett.


Ditto what Mike said though I've taken the route of finding
them at garage/estate sales. Of course it never hurts that
we did once upon a time employ an inordinate amount of
machinists here in the upper midwest.

Also, eBay and don't stay stuck too long on Starrett when
there are also the Unions, the Lufkins, the Mitutoyos, the
PECs, the STIs, the Brown and Sharpes, and the Scherr
Tumicos.

UA100, who paid/pays around $10-$20 (1) average for a 12"
Starrett 3-piece combo...

(1) One does have to uncover a lot of garage/estate sales
to find a decent tool or two at great prices and whilst one
could/should/would factor in this time as it relates to the
cost of the purchase one could/should/would also offset this
factor/cost with the thrill of the hunt for it's own
entertainment value. I mean, what better way to kill a
Saturday than to hunt down tool and machine bargains?...

Andy Dingley wrote:
More importantly, you can't run a company on loyalty alone. Even if
some of your customers still buy "for old times sake", the majority of
them are fickle and will move away.


It's interesting how perception plays into all of this.
Let's look at two companies that rely on the perception of
their products.

Starrett deservedly enjoys a perception that their tools are
the finest that one can buy. Craftsman (Sears) also enjoys
a perception that their tools are the finest one can buy.
The difference is Starrett owns their perception based on
fact whereas Craftsman is riding on past performance.
Starrett's audience is very narrow where as Craftsman's is
continually resupplied by those who have bought into the
hype. Starrett is under some pretty stiff competition from
tool makers whose products are as good but being produced
less expensively. Craftsman continues to degrade (1) but
continues to thrive because the new customers have not
caught on yet.

It really kinda depends on your niche.

(1) Yes I know there are *some* good/great Craftsman
tools/machines but on a whole it's safer to assume that you
won't be buying the best and crying once.

UA100, no solutions here, just an observation or three...

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message ..
snip factor/cost with the thrill of the hunt for it's own
entertainment value. I mean, what better way to kill a
Saturday than to hunt down tool and machine bargains?...

G'day Keith,

Well, there's um, ahh. rethinks Did you say 10-12 for a combo set?

Groggy (who's finally getting some shop time)

All you have to do is watch the UPS driver when he walks back to his
truck.
Notice his knuckles dragging the ground?
Need I say more about Un---Professional ----Service

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:10:46 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

Craftsman (Sears) also enjoys
a perception that their tools are the finest one can buy.

Really ? Now I'm in the wrong country to really be familiar with
these things, but my impression was always that they were about as
good as Black & Decker (i.e. not very).


Lately I've been wearing out Eclipse hacksaw blades, even the bi-metal
ones. This _really_ annoys me, because I have another of their blades,
supposedly identical, that I know I've been using for twenty years. If
you ever let the quality slip, it does get noticed.

--
Smert' spamionam

Greg Millen wrote:
G'day Keith,

Hey Der/Ho Der/Hi Der Greg,

Well, there's um, ahh. rethinks Did you say 10-12 for a combo set?

On a good day a body can find a Starrett 4R blade in the
$1/$2 range, maybe $5. A head might set you back $5/$10,
maybe as high as $20. A full set (head/scribe/blade) can be
found in the $10/$20 range, maybe $30. My best was the full
boat (head/scribe/blade/protractor/center head) for $20ish.

Groggy (who's finally getting some shop time)

sigh...

UA100, just lounging this weekend after 19 straight days at
work (at work of course)...

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 16:04:40 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:10:46 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

Craftsman (Sears) also enjoys
a perception that their tools are the finest one can buy.

Really ? Now I'm in the wrong country to really be familiar with these
things, but my impression was always that they were about as good as Black
& Decker (i.e. not very).

The Craftsman brand really did have great tools for a long time. I still
use my grandfather's drill from the 40's. Many, many Craftsman RAS and TS
from decades past are still in service and still outperform their current
C-man kin. Their mechanic's tools are still very good.

So the perception of "Craftsman=good tools" is somewhat justified. Guys
who are just starting to put their own tools together are likely to see
quite a few Craftsman tools among his father's and grandfather's tools.
Plus professional endorsements (Hi, Bob!) and endless commercials help to
prop the image up. I've never seen DeWalt, Grizzly, Jet, Makita, General,
Laguna, etc. advertise on television. Delta commercials are uncommon.

So it can take some time (and a few less than satisfactory purchases)
before the Craftsman myth is truly revealed.

--
Joe Wells

Andy Dingley wrote:
Really ? Now I'm in the wrong country to really be familiar with
these things, but my impression was always that they were about as
good as Black & Decker (i.e. not very).


You impression is correct. Among the brain dead who will
take the time to fill out a survey (1), it's not.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/new...asp?NewsID=419

(1) These are the same people we allow to vote for and
elect our elected officials making me think this whole idea
of democracy has a serious flaw and maybe a test wouldn't be
totally out of line.

UA100

You impression is correct. Among the brain dead who will
take the time to fill out a survey (1), it's not.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/new...asp?NewsID=419

(1) These are the same people we allow to vote for and
elect our elected officials making me think this whole idea
of democracy has a serious flaw and maybe a test wouldn't be
totally out of line.

UA100

Looking at that list, WD-40 and especially Bose are another couple brands that
are frighteningly overrated.

GTO(John)

"GTO69RA4" wrote in message

Looking at that list, WD-40 and especially Bose are another couple brands
that
are frighteningly overrated.

GTO(John)

Are you sure? Look at all the money they spend on advertising.

Add Frigidaire to the list. Used to make some of the best appliances when
they were part of General Motors.

Andy Dingley writes:

More importantly, you can't run a company on loyalty alone. Even if
some of your customers still buy "for old times sake", the majority of
them are fickle and will move away.

They're not being fickle-- if they bought from you for a reason,
and you remove that aspect of your product, they'll stop buying
for the same reason they were attracted to your product in the
first place. The reason could be quality, or price, or whatever,
but if you change the deal, you'll have to attract a different
set of customers.

The strange thing is when every manufacturer chases the
low-priced end of the market. Haven't they ever heard of niche
markets?

Yes. It's getting so that buying things of high quality, realizing that it
will cost more, is hard to do. Cheap is all you can find.

"Ron Bean" wrote in message
...


The strange thing is when every manufacturer chases the
low-priced end of the market.

Unisaw A100 wrote:
snip

You impression is correct. Among the brain dead who will
take the time to fill out a survey (1), it's not.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/new...asp?NewsID=419

(1) These are the same people we allow to vote for and
elect our elected officials making me think this whole idea
of democracy has a serious flaw and maybe a test wouldn't be
totally out of line.

UA100

Actually this survey makes perfect sense. If you ask Joe Homeowner, who
uses a tool once every few months, to name some tool brands, probably
the first (and in many cases only) brand name he'll come up with will be
Sears. When he goes to the mall with his wife he probably sees all
those cool toys and imagines them great, having no basis of comparison.
As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, few of the other
companies advertise at all to the mass media (Joe Howeowner doesn't read
FW, PW, AW or Wood Mag. to see the other ads).

Glen

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:14:29 GMT, Glen wrote:


As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, few of the other
companies advertise at all to the mass media (Joe Howeowner doesn't read
FW, PW, AW or Wood Mag. to see the other ads).

Glen

All of those magazines are sold in supermarkets, not to mention Family
Handyman. There is no secret handshake required to flip through any
of them while Suzy picks out veggies. My local supermarket has padded
chairs in the magazine and book aisle! G

Delta, Jet, Porter Cable, Dewalt, Bosch, etc... show up in many home
centers and warehouse stores, including SEARS! My local Sears and
Sears Hardware stores display the good brands side by side with
Craftsman and B&D. Home Depot and Lowes market directly at Harry
Homeowner, if he wasn't born yesterday, he's been there.

Dewalt, Porter Cable, Bosch and Makita sponsor sports, including a ton
of auto racing. Many of them sponsor or have sponsored Norm, This Old
House, Warehouse Warriors, and home improvement / makeover shows that
attract more and more of an audience.

Nowadays, you'd really have to have just stepped off the UFO, with
your last Earth visit in the 60's, to not know of Bosch, PC, Dewalt,
Makita, etc... and believe B&D or Craftsman is top notch stuff.
Those companies are milking a reputation, and it may take a
generation, but the reputation will correct itself.

Barry

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:32:23 -0500, Joe Wells wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 16:04:40 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:10:46 GMT, Unisaw A100
wrote:

Craftsman (Sears) also enjoys
a perception that their tools are the finest one can buy.

Really ? Now I'm in the wrong country to really be familiar with these
things, but my impression was always that they were about as good as Black
& Decker (i.e. not very).

The Craftsman brand really did have great tools for a long time. I still
use my grandfather's drill from the 40's. Many, many Craftsman RAS and TS
from decades past are still in service and still outperform their current
C-man kin. Their mechanic's tools are still very good.

So the perception of "Craftsman=good tools" is somewhat justified. Guys
who are just starting to put their own tools together are likely to see
quite a few Craftsman tools among his father's and grandfather's tools.
Plus professional endorsements (Hi, Bob!) and endless commercials help to
prop the image up. I've never seen DeWalt, Grizzly, Jet, Makita, General,
Laguna, etc. advertise on television. Delta commercials are uncommon.

So it can take some time (and a few less than satisfactory purchases)
before the Craftsman myth is truly revealed.

Joe,

Delta does advtertise on PBS woodworking shows like "New Yankee Workshop"
and others..

Jeremy supercommodoreatmaildotcom

B a r r y wrote:
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:14:29 GMT, Glen wrote:



As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, few of the other
companies advertise at all to the mass media (Joe Howeowner doesn't read
FW, PW, AW or Wood Mag. to see the other ads).

Glen


All of those magazines are sold in supermarkets, not to mention Family
Handyman. There is no secret handshake required to flip through any
of them while Suzy picks out veggies. My local supermarket has padded
chairs in the magazine and book aisle! G

I don't disagree with you one bit, the info is out there, as are all the
mags, but I maintain that the average, non-serious wooddorker does not
see those ads or appreciate the difference between a quality tool and a
Sears tool.

Delta, Jet, Porter Cable, Dewalt, Bosch, etc... show up in many home
centers and warehouse stores, including SEARS! My local Sears and
Sears Hardware stores display the good brands side by side with
Craftsman and B&D. Home Depot and Lowes market directly at Harry
Homeowner, if he wasn't born yesterday, he's been there.

Again, I agree with you, they are there, but most Joe Homeowner types
remember Bob Vila's smiling face and assumes that the Sear's name
represents quality. After all, we all know that Bob Vila is a serious
professional. ;-)

Dewalt, Porter Cable, Bosch and Makita sponsor sports, including a ton
of auto racing. Many of them sponsor or have sponsored Norm, This Old
House, Warehouse Warriors, and home improvement / makeover shows that
attract more and more of an audience.

Nowadays, you'd really have to have just stepped off the UFO, with
your last Earth visit in the 60's, to not know of Bosch, PC, Dewalt,
Makita, etc... and believe B&D or Craftsman is top notch stuff.
Those companies are milking a reputation, and it may take a
generation, but the reputation will correct itself.

Here, sir, I must disagree, if only from anicdotal evidence. I can't
count the times I have talked tools with non-wooddorking friends and
co-workers who appear to have never heard of Delta (a faucet company?)
and Powermatic (don't they make the vegetable dicers that we see on the
infomercials?)

Glen

Barry

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 12:29:17 GMT, Glen wrote:


Here, sir, I must disagree, if only from anicdotal evidence. I can't
count the times I have talked tools with non-wooddorking friends and
co-workers who appear to have never heard of Delta (a faucet company?)
and Powermatic (don't they make the vegetable dicers that we see on the
infomercials?)

"Industrial" names like Powermatic, General, etc... are a whole
'nuther ball game, and I'll agree with you on that. I was mainly
comparing DeWalt, Makita, PC, Bosch, etc... with Craftsman and Black &
Decker. Handheld power stuff, like drills, saws and sanders, that a
homeowner might buy, not specialized heavy iron.

Delta really suprises me as they make plenty of inexpensive, homeowner
quality tools, like miter saws, that are sold in home centers. They
also do plenty of mass-market advertising. My clueless brother-in-law
even has a Delta miter saw.

Have these people ever been in the tool aisle at Sears, Home Depot, or
Lowes? G

Barry

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 05:01:24 -0700, Destined wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:32:23 -0500, Joe Wells wrote:

I've never seen DeWalt, Grizzly, Jet, Makita,
General, Laguna, etc. advertise on television. Delta commercials are
uncommon.

Delta does advtertise on PBS woodworking shows like "New Yankee Workshop"
and others..

Which is why I labeled them "uncommon".

--
Joe Wells

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 12:29:17 GMT, Glen wrote:

Here, sir, I must disagree, if only from anicdotal evidence. I can't
count the times I have talked tools with non-wooddorking friends and
co-workers who appear to have never heard of Delta (a faucet company?)
and Powermatic (don't they make the vegetable dicers that we see on the
infomercials?)


It can get worse. I've had discussions with co-workers who know full
well what a good tool is, know the brands, and still make a passionate
arguement in favor of the likes of Black & Decker and Craftsman as
being great tools. Their position is that 95% percent of tool buyers
can't afford and don't need "those overpriced luxury tools" ala
Milwaukee, Bosch, Porter-Cable, ect.

BUT - the times I've loaned one my good tools, my DeWalt jigsaw or my
PC RAS for example, they uniformy return it (in working order) and
report "WOW! that works great! So much better that my old Ryobi (or
Craftsman or other off brand).

The performance is the proof, but many people have yet to use a good
tool for the task at hand.