Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
![]() |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
I've a couple of older (40-50 yrs) Craftsman contractor's saws, one of
which I have been using for a couple of years with few complaints (after installing new arbor bearings, machined pulleys, link belt, custom extensions, and a decent fence). However, I am not pleased with the legs the thing sits on. The way the saw is attached allows for a lot of wobble on shut down/wind down. So I'm gonna build some new legs, and am hoping to find a way to make the box itself stiffer (the screw for the arbor tilt tends to distort the sheet metal and I don't trust it to keep a set). I've also been thinking of trying to mount the motor so that it hangs below the table (if I can get enough swing for the tilt), instead of hangin' off the back. Anyone have experience with these kind of modifications, or suggestions/warnings/incantations I should heed (short of shelling out for a new saw--that's not in the budget)? I have some steel, and a friend who welds (a future skill). BTW--I'm an inveterate tinkerer: if I can build it with scrap I couldn't be happier! (Does that make me a cheap *******? g) Dan |
#2
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Dan Cullimore wrote:
I've also been thinking of trying to mount the motor so that it hangs below the table (if I can get enough swing for the tilt), instead of hangin' off the back. Anyone have experience with these kind of modifications, or suggestions/warnings/incantations I should heed (short of shelling out for a new saw--that's not in the budget)? I have some steel, and a friend who welds (a future skill). It has been done (commercially) but in those applications the mount was shoved way up inside the saw cabinet close to the arbor. I would mock the whole thing up in wood first. In my head and with my limited arm chair injineering I'm not seeing it being too successful but you never know. BTW--I'm an inveterate tinkerer: if I can build it with scrap I couldn't be happier! (Does that make me a cheap *******? g) No. That makes you a woodworker. UA100, who, like all other woodworkers, is also a cheap bahstad... |
#4
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
(vmtw) wrote in message om...
snipping old stuff This is a good link to help you do what you want to do. http://www.woodbutcher.net/craftts.htm snipped Scott Thanks, Scott. I enjoyed Rod's philosophy about saws most of all, as it confirms the assumptions I've made. When I get to build the climate controlled shop I want I'll get a "real" saw. In the mean time (and probably for some time to come) I'll be quite happy with this old "crapsman" that cuts boards straight and true as I need. I've already done most of the retrofits Peterson recommends (not the PALS yet, but it's on my list; a Forrest blade is still a dreamed-for purchase, too). What I really need is advice on the construction of legs, ways to make the short metal cabinet that came with the saw more rigid, and moving the motor into position below the arbor/trunion/table assembly. I do plan to make a mock-up of these retrofits, but would like to hear from anyone else who has tried them, especically the last. I'd even appreciate someone talking me out of it. My reasoning about moving the motor is not at all firm, just a thought that the saw might suffer fewer stresses were the motor not hangin' out the ass. I know most cabinet saws have the motor below the table/trunion assembly, and can't see the reason contractor's saws were built differ'ntly, except to make them portable, which mine is not nor will be. (If I ever need a portable table saw, I'll buy one of those little guys with the plastic body!) Thanks to the comments so far. I'll keep (dare I say it?) "trolling" for more experience. Dan |
#5
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
Dan Cullimore asks:
What I really need is advice on the construction of legs, ways to make the short metal cabinet that came with the saw more rigid, and moving the motor into position below the arbor/trunion/table assembly. I do plan to make a mock-up of these retrofits, but would like to hear from anyone else who has tried them, especically the last. I'd even appreciate someone talking me out of it. My reasoning about moving the motor is not at all firm, just a thought that the saw might suffer fewer stresses were the motor not hangin' out the ass. I know most cabinet saws have the motor below the table/trunion assembly, and can't see the reason contractor's saws were built differ'ntly, except to make them portable, which mine is not nor will be. I suggest the motor hanger design handles the stresses quite well: when was the last time you heard of a contractor's saws cabinet or table failing? Consider, too, that you'll have a choice of making modifications to that already flimsy cabinet if you place the motor inside. The motor has to have some place to go when you tilt the arbor assembly, which is the reason it is hanging out the back on ligher duty saws. Bring it back inside and you need a motor cover to one side or the other (depending on tilt: probably to the left on your saw). If it was me, I'd build a box stand (cabinet in other words) to set the saw on, add some storage in the form of a drawer or two and a shelf, bolt the cabinet that exists to that, and stick with what I've got otherwise. Charlie Self "A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken |
#6
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() "Dan Cullimore" wrote in message om... (vmtw) wrote in message om... snipping old stuff This is a good link to help you do what you want to do. http://www.woodbutcher.net/craftts.htm snipped Scott Thanks, Scott. I enjoyed Rod's philosophy about saws most of all, as it confirms the assumptions I've made. When I get to build the climate controlled shop I want I'll get a "real" saw. In the mean time (and probably for some time to come) I'll be quite happy with this old "crapsman" that cuts boards straight and true as I need. With all due respect to Rod's philosophy, a saw that cuts straight and true is a real saw. Many a Craftsman Model 100 has long served its operator well over many a year. Wanting a different saw is one thing, but finding something remarkably better in another saw is something entirely different. Don't sell your Craftsman short - the old ones are good saws. Very good saws. They are very stable, easy to adjust (although you'll only have to adjust it once) and with a good fence they are very accurate. Again, with the caveat that sometimes "wanting" something is plenty justification enough, do not expect that any "real" saw is going to make a better woodworker out of you than an old Craftsman - the true measure is in the guy behind the saw, not the saw. I've already done most of the retrofits Peterson recommends (not the PALS yet, but it's on my list; a Forrest blade is still a dreamed-for purchase, too). My recommendation is to forget the PALS. Your Craftsman will adjust to within .001 without them, and after you get it adjusted it's all set unless you drive your car into the side of it. Setting yours up as it is should not take more than an hour of your time. So - what's the need for add ons? I'd even appreciate someone talking me out of it. My reasoning about moving the motor is not at all firm, just a thought that the saw might suffer fewer stresses were the motor not hangin' out the ass. I know most cabinet saws have the motor below the table/trunion assembly, and can't see the reason contractor's saws were built differ'ntly, except to make them portable, which mine is not nor will be. (If I ever need a portable table saw, I'll buy one of those little guys with the plastic body!) I think you're worrying about things that time has proven there is no need to worry about. These saws are still in use reliably some 30 or 40 years after they were manufactured. Do you really expect a design flaw to show up now? The saw does not suffer stresses from the rear mounted mouter. That weight and the stresses associated with it are carried by the stand that the saw is mounted to. Just go ahead and align the saw and have some fun with it. Unless you are really talented with this type of thing - and it does not sound like this is your forte based on your questions, then you are more likely to create a bigger problem with any modifications you make than any problem you fear might pop up now. Now, go make some sawdust... -- -Mike- |
#7
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
I gave my sears table saw away many years ago but if I remember correctly
the motor was hung on the back and it,s weight used to tension the belt. I installed a bigger motor on mine,which was longer , this require a hole in the outfeed table for the motor when fully tilted to provide clearance . I see no reason why mounting it under the table provided you buid in some way of tensioning the belt. As the motor pulley is alligned with the Arbor pulley just make sure the motor pulley when tilted is closest to the underside of the of the table and not the end of the drive motor, in may involve changing the motor rotation [or am I crazy]......mjh -- http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2 "Unisaw A100" wrote in message ... Dan Cullimore wrote: I've also been thinking of trying to mount the motor so that it hangs below the table (if I can get enough swing for the tilt), instead of hangin' off the back. Anyone have experience with these kind of modifications, or suggestions/warnings/incantations I should heed (short of shelling out for a new saw--that's not in the budget)? I have some steel, and a friend who welds (a future skill). It has been done (commercially) but in those applications the mount was shoved way up inside the saw cabinet close to the arbor. I would mock the whole thing up in wood first. In my head and with my limited arm chair injineering I'm not seeing it being too successful but you never know. BTW--I'm an inveterate tinkerer: if I can build it with scrap I couldn't be happier! (Does that make me a cheap *******? g) No. That makes you a woodworker. UA100, who, like all other woodworkers, is also a cheap bahstad... |
#8
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message k.net...
"Dan Cullimore" wrote: snip When I get to build the climate controlled shop I want I'll get a "real" saw. snip Mike Marlow responded: With all due respect to Rod's philosophy, a saw that cuts straight and true is a real saw. snip Mike, this "'real' saw" is not a quote from Rod, but is my poor (perhaps just misunderstood) attempt at snob-snubbing humor. Rod's philosopy, and mine, don't differ from your well reasoned response. I've already done most of the retrofits Peterson recommends (not the PALS yet, but it's on my list; a Forrest blade is still a dreamed-for purchase, too). My recommendation is to forget the PALS. Your Craftsman will adjust to within .001 without them, and after you get it adjusted it's all set unless you drive your car into the side of it. Setting yours up as it is should not take more than an hour of your time. So - what's the need for add ons? I'll take this under advisement. I'd even appreciate someone talking me out of it. My reasoning about moving the motor is not at all firm, just a thought that the saw might suffer fewer stresses were the motor not hangin' out the ass. I know most cabinet saws have the motor below the table/trunion assembly, and can't see the reason contractor's saws were built differ'ntly, except to make them portable, which mine is not nor will be. (If I ever need a portable table saw, I'll buy one of those little guys with the plastic body!) I think you're worrying about things that time has proven there is no need to worry about. These saws are still in use reliably some 30 or 40 years after they were manufactured. Do you really expect a design flaw to show up now? The saw does not suffer stresses from the rear mounted mouter. That weight and the stresses associated with it are carried by the stand that the saw is mounted to. Just go ahead and align the saw and have some fun with it. Unless you are really talented with this type of thing - and it does not sound like this is your forte based on your questions, then you are more likely to create a bigger problem with any modifications you make than any problem you fear might pop up now. Now, go make some sawdust... Good points. I have aligned the saw; and I enjoy making sawdust, even to some reasonable degree of tolerance. My worry is the amount of shake I get at shut down--I'm trying to minimize the dance the saw does (it doesn't really shuffle across the floor, just looks like it wants to). Do you really expect a design flaw to show up now? The saw does not suffer stresses from the rear mounted mouter. Maybe. And maybe. Given all the bad press about "crapsman" tools, I do expect some of it to be valid. I'm not expecting cabinet saw sophistication, but I do want to address my saw's shaking. Unless you are really talented with this type of thing - and it does not sound like this is your forte based on your questions, then you are more likely to create a bigger problem with any modifications you make than any problem you fear might pop up now. That's why I'm asking; BTW, I have found very few things I can't learn to do, often well, even if I stumble occasionally. But thanks for the cautionary statements; I need to hear the down side. Now, do you have any experience on making the saw settle more gently into "off"? Someone here (sorry, I just read it but don't remember who) suggested building a cabinet on which to bolt the saw. That sounds like the kind of advice I need. |
#9
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() "Dan Cullimore" wrote in message om... "Mike Marlow" wrote in message k.net... "Dan Cullimore" wrote: snip When I get to build the climate controlled shop I want I'll get a "real" saw. snip Mike Marlow responded: With all due respect to Rod's philosophy, a saw that cuts straight and true is a real saw. snip Mike, this "'real' saw" is not a quote from Rod, but is my poor (perhaps just misunderstood) attempt at snob-snubbing humor. Rod's philosopy, and mine, don't differ from your well reasoned response. I'll have to take the responsibility for the poorly phrased senetence. I too, had read Rod's web site and don't take exception with his advice nor his philosophy at large. I found it to be a helpful web site. My statement was an attempt to express that while speaking to the phrase "real saw", which I suspected you uses lightly, but which caught my eye all the same. I should probably have seperated the two thoughts for clairity, but I opted for an "efficient" one-sentence-does-it-all type of thing and I think I did you both a disservice. My apologies for that. I'd even appreciate someone talking me out of it. My reasoning about moving the motor is not at all firm, just a thought that the saw might suffer fewer stresses were the motor not hangin' out the ass. I know most cabinet saws have the motor below the table/trunion assembly, and can't see the reason contractor's saws were built differ'ntly, except to make them portable, which mine is not nor will be. (If I ever need a portable table saw, I'll buy one of those little guys with the plastic body!) I think you're worrying about things that time has proven there is no need to worry about. These saws are still in use reliably some 30 or 40 years after they were manufactured. Do you really expect a design flaw to show up now? The saw does not suffer stresses from the rear mounted mouter. That weight and the stresses associated with it are carried by the stand that the saw is mounted to. Just go ahead and align the saw and have some fun with it. Unless you are really talented with this type of thing - and it does not sound like this is your forte based on your questions, then you are more likely to create a bigger problem with any modifications you make than any problem you fear might pop up now. Now, go make some sawdust... Good points. I have aligned the saw; and I enjoy making sawdust, even to some reasonable degree of tolerance. My worry is the amount of shake I get at shut down--I'm trying to minimize the dance the saw does (it doesn't really shuffle across the floor, just looks like it wants to). Others have stated that the link belts and new pulleys reduce shake. I've never used one, so I can't comment on that. Some motors do create more shake than others on start up and shut down and those who know motors better than I can probably tell us both why that is, though it seems to be related to the way they ramp up and down. The little 8" Craftsman that I posted a comment about the other night (was my Dad's and now belongs to a friend) used to jump pretty hard on start up and shutdown. We were able to reduce that to the point that a nickel would stand on edge throughout the startup and shutdown process, just by building a decent base for it. That base is nothing fancy at all. It's a 2x4 leg assembly, with 2x4 bands around the legs at about 6" from the floor, and again at the top. We used 1/2" plywood for the top of the base because we had it, but other materials could have worked just as good. We used two carriage bolts in each end of the long bands that run between the front legs and the back legs and we nailed the end bands on. The whole thing is not as heavy as you might think but it is very stable. Make sure your saw itself is well secured to the top of your stand. You should be comfortable jumping right up on your tablesaw to change a light bulb or to get down one of the whachermakallits that you stash way up on the top shelf 'cause you just never use them that much, without worry about it being rickity. The stand I built for my 10" model 100 is essentially the same thing, only sized a little bigger for my saw, and I used 3/4" plywood for the top of the stand. Otherwise, same principle. Do you really expect a design flaw to show up now? The saw does not suffer stresses from the rear mounted mouter. Maybe. And maybe. Given all the bad press about "crapsman" tools, I do expect some of it to be valid. I'm not expecting cabinet saw sophistication, but I do want to address my saw's shaking. That's really the reason that I find myself getting (too) deeply into these threads. As I said in another post, I'm no Craftsman apologist, and I'm the first to bitch about some of the absolute junk they sell (routers), but some of the stuff they've sold over the years... and maybe by the looks of it, some of the stuff they're stepping up to these days, is really quality stuff. It is popular here to bash Craftsman in sort of a snobbish way and while some of their junk rightly deserves that treatment, other products just don't. The problem is that the bashing takes on a life of its own and folks like yourself start to wonder - based on the bashing, if they really have problems and start thinking about spending large sums of money that they really don't need to spend. What I find amusing is the folks who will hammer on Craftsman about the idiosyncracies of tuning their saws (which are really minor things), yet they will be somewhat proud of how difficult it is to set up a Griz or a Delta or a whatever. The idiosyncracies of a machine that costs 10 times more seem to be a badge of honor. In reality, you should expect cabinet saw performance out of your tablesaw. At the saw level - excluding things like outfeed size, etc., there is nothing in a well set up tablesaw like yours that suffers inadequacy compared to a good cabinet saw of similar size and HP. All that having been said - trash the fence system that came with your saw. I use an Align-A-Rip 24x24 and it's as accurate and as easy to use as it gets. I've used Beys systems, Jet, etc. in the past and I've nothing bad to say about them, but the Align-A-Rip was a hell of a lot cheaper and is a top notch system. Unless you are really talented with this type of thing - and it does not sound like this is your forte based on your questions, then you are more likely to create a bigger problem with any modifications you make than any problem you fear might pop up now. That's why I'm asking; BTW, I have found very few things I can't learn to do, often well, even if I stumble occasionally. But thanks for the cautionary statements; I need to hear the down side. Now, do you have any experience on making the saw settle more gently into "off"? Someone here (sorry, I just read it but don't remember who) suggested building a cabinet on which to bolt the saw. That sounds like the kind of advice I need. That's pretty much how I am. I didn't mean to sound condescending with what I said, it's just that a newsgroup post does not really give you a very good picture of what a person is capable of. Definitely, go for a good solid base for your saw. Build it, don't buy it. Use cherry, and stain it a real pretty color... -- -Mike- |
#10
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]()
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message link.net...
snipping I'll have to take the responsibility for the poorly phrased senetence. I too, had read Rod's web site and don't take exception with his advice nor his philosophy at large. I found it to be a helpful web site. My statement was an attempt to express that while speaking to the phrase "real saw", which I suspected you uses lightly, but which caught my eye all the same. I should probably have seperated the two thoughts for clairity, but I opted for an "efficient" one-sentence-does-it-all type of thing and I think I did you both a disservice. My apologies for that. No prob. Others have stated that the link belts and new pulleys reduce shake. I've never used one, so I can't comment on that. Some motors do create more shake than others on start up and shut down and those who know motors better than I can probably tell us both why that is, though it seems to be related to the way they ramp up and down. Got a link belt and one machined pully on the saw arbor; need one for the motor. They did (do) make a difference. I've considered a bigger hp motor--one reason for my initial query being that I anticipate more jitter on shut-down with more hp. The little 8" Craftsman that I posted a comment about the other night (was my Dad's and now belongs to a friend) used to jump pretty hard on start up and shutdown. We were able to reduce that to the point that a nickel would stand on edge throughout the startup and shutdown process, just by building a decent base for it. That base is nothing fancy at all. It's a 2x4 leg assembly, with 2x4 bands around the legs at about 6" from the floor, and again at the top. We used 1/2" plywood for the top of the base because we had it, but other materials could have worked just as good. We used two carriage bolts in each end of the long bands that run between the front legs and the back legs and we nailed the end bands on. The whole thing is not as heavy as you might think but it is very stable. Make sure your saw itself is well secured to the top of your stand. You should be comfortable jumping right up on your tablesaw to change a light bulb or to get down one of the whachermakallits that you stash way up on the top shelf 'cause you just never use them that much, without worry about it being rickity. The stand I built for my 10" model 100 is essentially the same thing, only sized a little bigger for my saw, and I used 3/4" plywood for the top of the stand. Otherwise, same principle. I really appreciate this example. It demostrates a simple solution to the problem. I can get carried away with my Rube Goldberg notions and miss the simple fix. Thanks for the insight. All that having been said - trash the fence system that came with your saw. I use an Align-A-Rip 24x24 and it's as accurate and as easy to use as it gets. I like this fence, too! Got it just after I got the saw. I've not used other after-market setups, but certainly couldn't justify the expense given the performance of this one. Definitely, go for a good solid base for your saw. Build it, don't buy it. Use cherry, and stain it a real pretty color... I found a can of "sea-foam" green ("institutional green" for those of us old enough to remember)latex would look real good on that cherry...;^) Thanks for the conversation; I've found it helpful. Dan |
#11
![]() |
|||
|
|||
![]() "Dan Cullimore" wrote in message om... I found a can of "sea-foam" green ("institutional green" for those of us old enough to remember)latex would look real good on that cherry...;^) Thanks for the conversation; I've found it helpful. You're there Dan! Sea-Foam Green is the perfect color for cherry. Remember - Sea-Foam Green always wants to be rolled on, never brushed. -- -Mike- |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Grizzly cabinet saw vs new Craftsman Cabinet like saw (a little long) | Woodworking | |||
New Craftsman RAS report | Woodworking | |||
opinion on craftsman router | Woodworking | |||
Can my Craftsman 15.5 hp, 42 in. Deck Lawn Tractor use Craftsman 42 in. Deluxe Lawn Tractor Snow Thrower | Home Ownership | |||
craftsman lathes FS | Metalworking |