I am about to plunge into the woodworking hobby and I am looking to buy
my first table saw. I am not going to use it to build furniture or cabinets.
I am mostly going to use it to build outdoor pergolas, trellises, and kids
play stuff. At least initially. I have done some reading on the subject
recently. Initially I was partial to Craftsman, but after reading all the
bad reviews and reports I have ruled that out. Especially since they are not
really significantly cheaper than Jet and Delta. I toured my local wood
working store and they had a few models to choose from. The two I was most
interested in were a Shop Fox W1703 http://www.shopfox.biz/w1703.cfm and a
Jet 708301K
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=hi&n=228366.
They were both $699.00 in the store. They did not have any comparable Delta
model on the show room. The Shop Fox looks a bit nicer, and has a better
fence for certain. Seemed to be a little better value for the money without
the name. That was the one the store guy was suggesting.

What I want to know is whether its OK to deviate from the Jet and Delta name
on this one? Is Shop Fox established enough yet? I ususally prefer to go
with the top seller for reasons of part availability, repair help etc.. And
secondly, is it worthwhile to pay the extra $100 to get cast iron wings
instead of stamped steel? Thirdly, are there any good online places to get
such equipment? I found a few on my own, but wondering if you pros out there
have better sources. Thanks.

Larry

Larry asks:

What I want to know is whether its OK to deviate from the Jet and Delta name
on this one? Is Shop Fox established enough yet? I ususally prefer to go
with the top seller for reasons of part availability, repair help etc.. And
secondly, is it worthwhile to pay the extra $100 to get cast iron wings
instead of stamped steel? Thirdly, are there any good online places to get
such equipment? I found a few on my own, but wondering if you pros out there
have better source

Shop Fox is usually a step or so up from Grizzly. I think Grizzly sells some of
the Shop Fox machines, which makes sense, because Woodstock International, the
Shop Fox distributor, is part of Grizzly. Grizzly has been around since '83,
improving each year.

Spend the extra bucks to get the cast iron wings. The extra mass is well worth
it.

Your mail order question is answered above.

Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary

I just got my Grizzly Go444Z Table Saw, G5979 Wood Lathe, and G1029Z Dust
Collector yesterday. I picked it up at Grizzly in Springfield, Missouri.
If you get a chance to visit to any of the 3 Grizzly show rooms it would be
worth your while. Most of their stuff comes from Taiwan. I see where more
and more of the woodworking stuff that Delta and the others have comes from
China. I was impressed with the quality of the Griz products.


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Larry asks:

What I want to know is whether its OK to deviate from the Jet and Delta
name
on this one? Is Shop Fox established enough yet? I ususally prefer to go
with the top seller for reasons of part availability, repair help etc..
And
secondly, is it worthwhile to pay the extra $100 to get cast iron wings
instead of stamped steel? Thirdly, are there any good online places to
get
such equipment? I found a few on my own, but wondering if you pros out
there
have better source

Shop Fox is usually a step or so up from Grizzly. I think Grizzly sells
some of
the Shop Fox machines, which makes sense, because Woodstock International,
the
Shop Fox distributor, is part of Grizzly. Grizzly has been around since
'83,
improving each year.

Spend the extra bucks to get the cast iron wings. The extra mass is well
worth
it.

Your mail order question is answered above.

Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose
Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:14:44 GMT, "Larry"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Flame suit on.

I wonder if you should _get_ a table saw. DAMHIKT.

If you are "just plunging in" it's the one of last tools to buy, up
there with planers, thicknessers etc, unless you have a lot of moolah
and want a big piece of iron to show off.

Its price displaces a lot of other stuff that you will need.

If you are building outdoor stuff you are going to to be using long
lumber, right? Unless you plan to do all you own ripping and such, a
table saw is not really suited to really long heavy pieces (and even
then you are going to need significant infeed and outfeed setups,
which take time and/or money to set up), and is much more accurate
than you need for pergolas etc. Also, table saws require quite a bit
of skill to get a piece of wood that is not perfectly straight and
flat to the level of quality that you expect from a table saw. Either
you have to be sneaky, or get a planer, jointer etc to prepeare the
wood.

I would be looking at a good saw guide and a hand power saw, or maybe
a chop saw (sliding compound mitre).

I have a table saw. I am at most a casual woodworker, but have
actually done more in the past than I do now. I decided that I would
get back into WW and that I needed a table saw. I bought one without
learning about them and their limits and requirements first. It does
_not_ do the work for you. To be really effective, you need to add
quite a bit to it. Handling big wood up to it is not easy.

In fact I was so ****ed off it probably slowed _down_ my WW level.

I do not think I am alone, although I have been bagged for saying what
I say here, several times. There are many posts here about how to keep
rust off table saw tops. Someone once quipped, all too truthfully,
that frequent application of wood was the best way.

I also have a philosophical outlook that too many people who buy these
tools have the wrong attitude to the purchase. It's all about speed
for them. This rarely works, until you get experience or skill. IT
leads to frustration and disappointment. Many of these people will get
frustrated and disappointed anyway, but withot the table saw they do
it a lot cheaper.


I am about to plunge into the woodworking hobby and I am looking to buy
my first table saw. I am not going to use it to build furniture or cabinets.
I am mostly going to use it to build outdoor pergolas, trellises, and kids
play stuff. At least initially. I have done some reading on the subject
recently. Initially I was partial to Craftsman, but after reading all the
bad reviews and reports I have ruled that out. Especially since they are not
really significantly cheaper than Jet and Delta. I toured my local wood
working store and they had a few models to choose from. The two I was most
interested in were a Shop Fox W1703 http://www.shopfox.biz/w1703.cfm and a
Jet 708301K
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=hi&n=228366.
They were both $699.00 in the store. They did not have any comparable Delta
model on the show room. The Shop Fox looks a bit nicer, and has a better
fence for certain. Seemed to be a little better value for the money without
the name. That was the one the store guy was suggesting.

What I want to know is whether its OK to deviate from the Jet and Delta name
on this one? Is Shop Fox established enough yet? I ususally prefer to go
with the top seller for reasons of part availability, repair help etc.. And
secondly, is it worthwhile to pay the extra $100 to get cast iron wings
instead of stamped steel? Thirdly, are there any good online places to get
such equipment? I found a few on my own, but wondering if you pros out there
have better sources. Thanks.

Larry


************************************************** ***
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.

"Old Nick" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:14:44 GMT, "Larry"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Flame suit on.

I wonder if you should _get_ a table saw. DAMHIKT.

If you are "just plunging in" it's the one of last tools to buy, up
there with planers, thicknessers etc, unless you have a lot of moolah
and want a big piece of iron to show off.

Its price displaces a lot of other stuff that you will need.

If you are building outdoor stuff you are going to to be using long
lumber, right? Unless you plan to do all you own ripping and such, a
table saw is not really suited to really long heavy pieces (and even
then you are going to need significant infeed and outfeed setups,
which take time and/or money to set up), and is much more accurate
than you need for pergolas etc. Also, table saws require quite a bit
of skill to get a piece of wood that is not perfectly straight and
flat to the level of quality that you expect from a table saw. Either
you have to be sneaky, or get a planer, jointer etc to prepeare the
wood.

I would be looking at a good saw guide and a hand power saw, or maybe
a chop saw (sliding compound mitre).

I have a table saw. I am at most a casual woodworker, but have
actually done more in the past than I do now. I decided that I would
get back into WW and that I needed a table saw. I bought one without
learning about them and their limits and requirements first. It does
_not_ do the work for you. To be really effective, you need to add
quite a bit to it. Handling big wood up to it is not easy.

In fact I was so ****ed off it probably slowed _down_ my WW level.

I do not think I am alone, although I have been bagged for saying what
I say here, several times. There are many posts here about how to keep
rust off table saw tops. Someone once quipped, all too truthfully,
that frequent application of wood was the best way.

I also have a philosophical outlook that too many people who buy these
tools have the wrong attitude to the purchase. It's all about speed
for them. This rarely works, until you get experience or skill. IT
leads to frustration and disappointment. Many of these people will get
frustrated and disappointed anyway, but withot the table saw they do
it a lot cheaper.

Sort of agree. My first big purchase was a TS, cause I always wanted one.
Then I went to trim my entertainment room in the basement and quickly
learned how useless it was for cutting trim. The trim was far too long to
make accurate cuts. So I had to buy a miter saw (not compound). Then there
is always the need to work outside or cut large pieces of wood (tiny shop),
so along came the circular saw, orange neon POS that it is. Also needed to
cut some curved pieces, so along came the jigsaw, at least it's a Bosch.
Coolest toy (least needed) had to be the brad nailer though.

But I still love my big honkin TS, especially with a Dado blade. Built in
router table is sorta useful/PITA.




I am about to plunge into the woodworking hobby and I am looking to
buy
my first table saw. I am not going to use it to build furniture or
cabinets.
I am mostly going to use it to build outdoor pergolas, trellises, and
kids
play stuff. At least initially. I have done some reading on the subject
recently. Initially I was partial to Craftsman, but after reading all the
bad reviews and reports I have ruled that out. Especially since they are
not
really significantly cheaper than Jet and Delta. I toured my local wood
working store and they had a few models to choose from. The two I was
most
interested in were a Shop Fox W1703 http://www.shopfox.biz/w1703.cfm and
a
Jet 708301K

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...1093042244/br=
1-1/ref=br_lf_hi_1//002-8383409-1042429?v=glance&s=hi&n=228366.
They were both $699.00 in the store. They did not have any comparable
Delta
model on the show room. The Shop Fox looks a bit nicer, and has a better
fence for certain. Seemed to be a little better value for the money
without
the name. That was the one the store guy was suggesting.

What I want to know is whether its OK to deviate from the Jet and Delta
name
on this one? Is Shop Fox established enough yet? I ususally prefer to go
with the top seller for reasons of part availability, repair help etc..
And
secondly, is it worthwhile to pay the extra $100 to get cast iron wings
instead of stamped steel? Thirdly, are there any good online places to
get
such equipment? I found a few on my own, but wondering if you pros out
there
have better sources. Thanks.

Larry


************************************************** ***
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.

Well I know I need a circular saw for outdoor stuff, so I will get one
of those. I also need to redo the wood planks in some outdoor furniture
which will be small pieces of wood. I plan to get a router as well. Those
will be the first 3 purchases. A little kids play house is not necessarily
going to be big pieces of lumber. I am getting a table saw as a work horse
for shelving panels and the like. I realize that it cannot do everything,
and like any tool it has its limitations. Which is why there are many
different tools!

Larry



"Old Nick" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:14:44 GMT, "Larry"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Flame suit on.

I wonder if you should _get_ a table saw. DAMHIKT.

If you are "just plunging in" it's the one of last tools to buy, up
there with planers, thicknessers etc, unless you have a lot of moolah
and want a big piece of iron to show off.

Its price displaces a lot of other stuff that you will need.

If you are building outdoor stuff you are going to to be using long
lumber, right? Unless you plan to do all you own ripping and such, a
table saw is not really suited to really long heavy pieces (and even
then you are going to need significant infeed and outfeed setups,
which take time and/or money to set up), and is much more accurate
than you need for pergolas etc. Also, table saws require quite a bit
of skill to get a piece of wood that is not perfectly straight and
flat to the level of quality that you expect from a table saw. Either
you have to be sneaky, or get a planer, jointer etc to prepeare the
wood.

I would be looking at a good saw guide and a hand power saw, or maybe
a chop saw (sliding compound mitre).

I have a table saw. I am at most a casual woodworker, but have
actually done more in the past than I do now. I decided that I would
get back into WW and that I needed a table saw. I bought one without
learning about them and their limits and requirements first. It does
_not_ do the work for you. To be really effective, you need to add
quite a bit to it. Handling big wood up to it is not easy.

In fact I was so ****ed off it probably slowed _down_ my WW level.

I do not think I am alone, although I have been bagged for saying what
I say here, several times. There are many posts here about how to keep
rust off table saw tops. Someone once quipped, all too truthfully,
that frequent application of wood was the best way.

I also have a philosophical outlook that too many people who buy these
tools have the wrong attitude to the purchase. It's all about speed
for them. This rarely works, until you get experience or skill. IT
leads to frustration and disappointment. Many of these people will get
frustrated and disappointed anyway, but withot the table saw they do
it a lot cheaper.


I am about to plunge into the woodworking hobby and I am looking to
buy
my first table saw. I am not going to use it to build furniture or
cabinets.
I am mostly going to use it to build outdoor pergolas, trellises, and
kids
play stuff. At least initially. I have done some reading on the subject
recently. Initially I was partial to Craftsman, but after reading all the
bad reviews and reports I have ruled that out. Especially since they are
not
really significantly cheaper than Jet and Delta. I toured my local wood
working store and they had a few models to choose from. The two I was
most
interested in were a Shop Fox W1703 http://www.shopfox.biz/w1703.cfm and
a
Jet 708301K

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...1093042244/br=
1-1/ref=br_lf_hi_1//002-8383409-1042429?v=glance&s=hi&n=228366.
They were both $699.00 in the store. They did not have any comparable
Delta
model on the show room. The Shop Fox looks a bit nicer, and has a better
fence for certain. Seemed to be a little better value for the money
without
the name. That was the one the store guy was suggesting.

What I want to know is whether its OK to deviate from the Jet and Delta
name
on this one? Is Shop Fox established enough yet? I ususally prefer to go
with the top seller for reasons of part availability, repair help etc..
And
secondly, is it worthwhile to pay the extra $100 to get cast iron wings
instead of stamped steel? Thirdly, are there any good online places to
get
such equipment? I found a few on my own, but wondering if you pros out
there
have better sources. Thanks.

Larry


************************************************** ***
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.

I think both of those I mentioned were made in China, but the sales guy was
saying how much better the stuff in Taiwan was made.

Larry



"Dave" wrote in message
news:XyxVc.10600$9d6.3025@attbi_s54...
I just got my Grizzly Go444Z Table Saw, G5979 Wood Lathe, and G1029Z Dust
Collector yesterday. I picked it up at Grizzly in Springfield, Missouri.
If you get a chance to visit to any of the 3 Grizzly show rooms it would
be
worth your while. Most of their stuff comes from Taiwan. I see where
more
and more of the woodworking stuff that Delta and the others have comes
from
China. I was impressed with the quality of the Griz products.


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Larry asks:

What I want to know is whether its OK to deviate from the Jet and Delta
name
on this one? Is Shop Fox established enough yet? I ususally prefer to
go
with the top seller for reasons of part availability, repair help etc..
And
secondly, is it worthwhile to pay the extra $100 to get cast iron wings
instead of stamped steel? Thirdly, are there any good online places to
get
such equipment? I found a few on my own, but wondering if you pros out
there
have better source

Shop Fox is usually a step or so up from Grizzly. I think Grizzly sells
some of
the Shop Fox machines, which makes sense, because Woodstock
International,
the
Shop Fox distributor, is part of Grizzly. Grizzly has been around since
'83,
improving each year.

Spend the extra bucks to get the cast iron wings. The extra mass is well
worth
it.

Your mail order question is answered above.

Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose
Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary

In article , Larry
wrote:

I am not going to use it to build furniture or cabinets.
I am mostly going to use it to build outdoor pergolas, trellises, and kids
play stuff. At least initially.

Get a good compound miter saw (12" blade) and circ saw instead.

How are you going to cut 4x4s and other long lumber on a table saw?
Wrong tool.

Even for stuff like shelving, a circ saw with a guide will do just fine.

I am a carpenter by trade and build some of the projects you mentioned. My
suggestion is going with a circular saw and rip fence to start instead of a
table saw. You will be doing a LOT more cross-cutting than ripping lumber,
and the circular saw just cannot be beat for this. If you just need to buy a
new tool, get a 12" miter saw, it will serve you better at this point. I
would recommend your first project be to build a good set of sawhorses
-dave



"Larry" wrote in message
...
I am about to plunge into the woodworking hobby and I am looking to
buy
my first table saw. I am not going to use it to build furniture or
cabinets.
I am mostly going to use it to build outdoor pergolas, trellises, and kids
play stuff. At least initially. I have done some reading on the subject
recently. Initially I was partial to Craftsman, but after reading all the
bad reviews and reports I have ruled that out. Especially since they are
not
really significantly cheaper than Jet and Delta. I toured my local wood
working store and they had a few models to choose from. The two I was most
interested in were a Shop Fox W1703 http://www.shopfox.biz/w1703.cfm and a
Jet 708301K

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...&s=hi&n=228366.
They were both $699.00 in the store. They did not have any comparable
Delta
model on the show room. The Shop Fox looks a bit nicer, and has a better
fence for certain. Seemed to be a little better value for the money
without
the name. That was the one the store guy was suggesting.

What I want to know is whether its OK to deviate from the Jet and Delta
name
on this one? Is Shop Fox established enough yet? I ususally prefer to go
with the top seller for reasons of part availability, repair help etc..
And
secondly, is it worthwhile to pay the extra $100 to get cast iron wings
instead of stamped steel? Thirdly, are there any good online places to get
such equipment? I found a few on my own, but wondering if you pros out
there
have better sources. Thanks.

Larry

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:03:56 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , Larry
wrote:

I am not going to use it to build furniture or cabinets.
I am mostly going to use it to build outdoor pergolas, trellises, and kids
play stuff. At least initially.

THAT Statement leads me to completely agree with what larry worte
below...

Get a good compound miter saw (12" blade) and circ saw instead.

How are you going to cut 4x4s and other long lumber on a table saw?
Wrong tool.

Even for stuff like shelving, a circ saw with a guide will do just fine.

I have been building furniture as a hobby for years and finally many
years after the kids have left the nest I am remodeling the basement
... My Tablesaw has not seen much "action" on this project...

Bob Griffiths

I am about to plunge into the woodworking hobby and I am looking to buy
my first table saw. BRBR

My own suggestion is to buy a bandsaw, as good as you can afford first. A Delta
or Jet 14" is a good start (I have a MiniMAx 16, but it costs a lot more). Soup
it up with the kit from Iturra. To handle crosscuts get a good miter saw.

I went the tablesaw route first, as do most people--from an Artisan CS, to a
Unisaw, and am now waiting on my Felder delivery. I went 10 years without a
bandsaw -- don't repeat my mistake. A bandsaw can do a lot more than a table
saw if properly tuned.

On 21 Aug 2004 13:16:20 GMT, (DarylRos) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I am about to plunge into the woodworking hobby and I am looking to buy
my first table saw. BRBR

My own suggestion is to buy a bandsaw, as good as you can afford first. A Delta
or Jet 14" is a good start (I have a MiniMAx 16, but it costs a lot more). Soup
it up with the kit from Iturra. To handle crosscuts get a good miter saw.

I went the tablesaw route first, as do most people--from an Artisan CS, to a
Unisaw, and am now waiting on my Felder delivery. I went 10 years without a
bandsaw -- don't repeat my mistake. A bandsaw can do a lot more than a table
saw if properly tuned.

Yep. I bought a bandsaw first, years ago and NEVER regretted it!

************************************************** ***
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:03:56 -0600, Dave Balderstone
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Christ! People are agreeing with me! I have been pounding this gavel
for ages! G

In article , Larry
wrote:

I am not going to use it to build furniture or cabinets.
I am mostly going to use it to build outdoor pergolas, trellises, and kids
play stuff. At least initially.

Get a good compound miter saw (12" blade) and circ saw instead.

How are you going to cut 4x4s and other long lumber on a table saw?
Wrong tool.

Even for stuff like shelving, a circ saw with a guide will do just fine.

************************************************** ***
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 04:41:48 GMT, "Larry"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Well I know I need a circular saw for outdoor stuff, so I will get one
of those. I also need to redo the wood planks in some outdoor furniture
which will be small pieces of wood. I plan to get a router as well. Those
will be the first 3 purchases. A little kids play house is not necessarily
going to be big pieces of lumber. I am getting a table saw as a work horse
for shelving panels and the like. I realize that it cannot do everything,
and like any tool it has its limitations. Which is why there are many
different tools!

I'm sorry to say "shrug". I tried.
************************************************** ***
Marriage. Where two people decide to get together so
that neither of them can do what they want to because
of the other one.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
I think both of those I mentioned were made in China, but the sales guy
was
saying how much better the stuff in Taiwan was made.

Larry

Country of origin is not the real factor here. It mostly has to do with
what level of quality the company wants the manufacturer to build to. The
company having the goods manufactured dictates the level of quality. That
said, you can get high or low quality from just about anywhere including
close to home.

As for the cast iron extensions over the stamped steel ones, normally the
steel ones are not flat and have to be tweaked with included angle brackets.
IMHO, if only for the ease of assembly alone I would choose the cast iron
over the stamped steel. The added weight helps cut down on vibration also.

The Grizzly G0444Z and G1029Z dust collector is made in Taiwan, it says so
on the box they came in. They are NOT made in China.

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
I think both of those I mentioned were made in China, but the sales guy
was
saying how much better the stuff in Taiwan was made.

Larry

Country of origin is not the real factor here. It mostly has to do with
what level of quality the company wants the manufacturer to build to. The
company having the goods manufactured dictates the level of quality. That
said, you can get high or low quality from just about anywhere including
close to home.

As for the cast iron extensions over the stamped steel ones, normally the
steel ones are not flat and have to be tweaked with included angle
brackets.
IMHO, if only for the ease of assembly alone I would choose the cast iron
over the stamped steel. The added weight helps cut down on vibration
also.