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Old July 2nd 20, 05:13 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default putting a header for a window

Greetings

Seeking the collective wisdom of the Internet on a remodeling
project.

The Project of the summer is to put a window in the shed. (I
should have done this two years ago when I was rebuilding said shed.
"If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have done a whole lot of
changes from what I did.)
I have two sliding window panels (the remains of an 8 foot wide
five foot high unit. sort of like this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/JELD-WEN-95-5-in-x-47-5-in-V-2500-Series-White-Vinyl-Universal-Reversible-Sliding-Window-with-Fiberglass-Mesh-Screen-Sierra-2VSLD-8040/202035708)

Anyway, the issue is The Header. The thing which goes at the top
of the wall and transfers the load "elsewhere" First question: does
it need to be a 4 x 8, or can two 2x8s be nailed together and made to
work?

Secondly the wall I want to put the window into is 'load bearing',
specifically, those studs have the joists supporting the loft
attached. Unlike the north or south wall which are just holding
themselves up. Originally I was willing to cut the studs under the
joists, and install the header under the joist. But .. that puts the
bottom of the window below the (eventual) bench top. (If my
calculations are correct, the bottom of the window is at 21 inches
height, and the bench top is at 30 inches. That will provide
ventilation under the bench.)
If I cut the joists loose (propping them up _before_ I start
sawing) I could raise everything up by 1 Joist height (six inches, if
memory serves). This still leaves the bottom of my windows below the
bench top, but ...

The alternative is to go buy a shorter window, but I don't want to
waste money of things like that when I need to get some tools.
--
pyotr filipivich
TV NEWS: Yesterday's newspaper read to the illiterate.

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Old July 2nd 20, 05:54 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default putting a header for a window

On 7/1/2020 11:13 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Greetings

Seeking the collective wisdom of the Internet on a remodeling
project.

The Project of the summer is to put a window in the shed. (I
should have done this two years ago when I was rebuilding said shed.
"If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have done a whole lot of
changes from what I did.)
I have two sliding window panels (the remains of an 8 foot wide
five foot high unit. sort of like this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/JELD-WEN-95-5-in-x-47-5-in-V-2500-Series-White-Vinyl-Universal-Reversible-Sliding-Window-with-Fiberglass-Mesh-Screen-Sierra-2VSLD-8040/202035708)

Anyway, the issue is The Header. The thing which goes at the top
of the wall and transfers the load "elsewhere" First question: does
it need to be a 4 x 8, or can two 2x8s be nailed together and made to
work?


I don't know that I've ever seen a 4"x8" board, let alone one used as a
header. Two 2x8's nailed together should do the trick. I used 2 2x6's
as headers in my garage shop without any problem.

I assume that the 8" is called for in the case of your span.

When I built the garage, I used a pair of 2x10's (IIRC) bolted together
with a "flitch plate" sandwiched between them. Plate was a 2x10 piece
of 3/8" steel. 34+ years later, with midwest snow loads there has been
ZERO deflection on that 16' garage door header.

As for the rest of the "problem", I'm not sure I understand what you're
asking so I won't volunteer anything other than to suggest what you're
already considering: Right sized windows to begin with.

Have you thought of hitting a "Habitat for Humanity" resale shop?
Amazing what you can find there.



Secondly the wall I want to put the window into is 'load bearing',
specifically, those studs have the joists supporting the loft
attached. Unlike the north or south wall which are just holding
themselves up. Originally I was willing to cut the studs under the
joists, and install the header under the joist. But .. that puts the
bottom of the window below the (eventual) bench top. (If my
calculations are correct, the bottom of the window is at 21 inches
height, and the bench top is at 30 inches. That will provide
ventilation under the bench.)
If I cut the joists loose (propping them up _before_ I start
sawing) I could raise everything up by 1 Joist height (six inches, if
memory serves). This still leaves the bottom of my windows below the
bench top, but ...

The alternative is to go buy a shorter window, but I don't want to
waste money of things like that when I need to get some tools.


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Old July 2nd 20, 06:10 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 14,320
Default putting a header for a window

On Thursday, July 2, 2020 at 12:13:27 AM UTC-4, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Greetings

Seeking the collective wisdom of the Internet on a remodeling
project.

The Project of the summer is to put a window in the shed. (I
should have done this two years ago when I was rebuilding said shed.
"If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have done a whole lot of
changes from what I did.)
I have two sliding window panels (the remains of an 8 foot wide
five foot high unit. sort of like this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/JELD-WEN-95-5-in-x-47-5-in-V-2500-Series-White-Vinyl-Universal-Reversible-Sliding-Window-with-Fiberglass-Mesh-Screen-Sierra-2VSLD-8040/202035708)

Anyway, the issue is The Header. The thing which goes at the top
of the wall and transfers the load "elsewhere" First question: does
it need to be a 4 x 8, or can two 2x8s be nailed together and made to
work?


Well, actually, the header doesn't necessarily go at the top of the wall.
Technically, it goes above the rough opening. Depending on the height of
the wall and placement of the rough opening, there may be studs between
the header and the top plate of the wall.

See he https://www.shedking.net/images/shed-framing-names.jpg

That said, Yes, building your own header is OK and probably the most common
method of creating a header. For 2 x 4 walls, you should seriously consider
adding a piece of 1/2" ply or OSB between the 2 x X's to build it out to the
full width of the 2 x 4 top plate.

However, I'm pretty sure that an 8' rough opening in a single story, load
bearing wall requires a minimum of a double 2 x 10, not 2 x 8. It might
need to be even bigger depending on the snow load.

(Old rule of thumb was width of opening plus 2)

Should we stop right here and not worry about your other question?



Secondly the wall I want to put the window into is 'load bearing',
specifically, those studs have the joists supporting the loft
attached. Unlike the north or south wall which are just holding
themselves up. Originally I was willing to cut the studs under the
joists, and install the header under the joist. But .. that puts the
bottom of the window below the (eventual) bench top. (If my
calculations are correct, the bottom of the window is at 21 inches
height, and the bench top is at 30 inches. That will provide
ventilation under the bench.)
If I cut the joists loose (propping them up _before_ I start
sawing) I could raise everything up by 1 Joist height (six inches, if
memory serves). This still leaves the bottom of my windows below the
bench top, but ...

The alternative is to go buy a shorter window, but I don't want to
waste money of things like that when I need to get some tools.
--
pyotr filipivich
TV NEWS: Yesterday's newspaper read to the illiterate.


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Old July 2nd 20, 06:20 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 3,212
Default putting a header for a window

Unquestionably Confused on Wed, 1 Jul 2020
23:54:37 -0500 typed in rec.woodworking the following:

I don't know that I've ever seen a 4"x8" board, let alone one used as a
header. Two 2x8's nailed together should do the trick. I used 2 2x6's
as headers in my garage shop without any problem.

I assume that the 8" is called for in the case of your span.

When I built the garage, I used a pair of 2x10's (IIRC) bolted together
with a "flitch plate" sandwiched between them. Plate was a 2x10 piece
of 3/8" steel. 34+ years later, with midwest snow loads there has been
ZERO deflection on that 16' garage door header.

As for the rest of the "problem", I'm not sure I understand what you're
asking so I won't volunteer anything other than to suggest what you're
already considering: Right sized windows to begin with.

Have you thought of hitting a "Habitat for Humanity" resale shop?
Amazing what you can find there.


I hadn't. But with the shutdown in Washington, I'd forgotten
about that.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
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Old July 2nd 20, 01:01 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 1,381
Default putting a header for a window

On Wed, 01 Jul 2020 21:13:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Greetings

Seeking the collective wisdom of the Internet on a remodeling
project.

The Project of the summer is to put a window in the shed. (I
should have done this two years ago when I was rebuilding said shed.
"If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have done a whole lot of
changes from what I did.)
I have two sliding window panels (the remains of an 8 foot wide
five foot high unit. sort of like this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/JELD-WEN-95-5-in-x-47-5-in-V-2500-Series-White-Vinyl-Universal-Reversible-Sliding-Window-with-Fiberglass-Mesh-Screen-Sierra-2VSLD-8040/202035708)

Anyway, the issue is The Header. The thing which goes at the top
of the wall and transfers the load "elsewhere" First question: does
it need to be a 4 x 8, or can two 2x8s be nailed together and made to
work?

Secondly the wall I want to put the window into is 'load bearing',
specifically, those studs have the joists supporting the loft
attached. Unlike the north or south wall which are just holding
themselves up. Originally I was willing to cut the studs under the
joists, and install the header under the joist. But .. that puts the
bottom of the window below the (eventual) bench top. (If my
calculations are correct, the bottom of the window is at 21 inches
height, and the bench top is at 30 inches. That will provide
ventilation under the bench.)
If I cut the joists loose (propping them up _before_ I start
sawing) I could raise everything up by 1 Joist height (six inches, if
memory serves). This still leaves the bottom of my windows below the
bench top, but ...

The alternative is to go buy a shorter window, but I don't want to
waste money of things like that when I need to get some tools.



What size is the opening ?
You say that you're using the 2 sliding windows from an 8 foot
window unit - and leave us to guess that size - gee thanks.
You could leave a doubled tripled stud in-between the 2 windows
and have half the span to worry about - ie: no worries.
John T.



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Old July 2nd 20, 01:05 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default putting a header for a window

On Thursday, July 2, 2020 at 12:11:00 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

For 2 x 4 walls, you should seriously consider
adding a piece of 1/2" ply or OSB between the 2 x X's to build it out to the full width of the 2 x 4 top plate.


+1. Do you understand what Derby is saying, here?


However, I'm pretty sure that an 8' rough opening in a single story, load
bearing wall requires a minimum of a double 2 x 10, not 2 x 8. It might
need to be even bigger depending on the snow load.


Compare the price of 2X8s and 2X10s.... not really much difference. Use 2X10s, at the least.

Probably doesn't matter how low your window is. Just don't have your sill, if any, poking out to interfere with your bench. No telling, you may move the bench to another location, later.

Sonny
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Old July 2nd 20, 02:12 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 3,820
Default putting a header for a window

On Thu, 02 Jul 2020 08:01:21 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jul 2020 21:13:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Greetings

Seeking the collective wisdom of the Internet on a remodeling
project.

The Project of the summer is to put a window in the shed. (I
should have done this two years ago when I was rebuilding said shed.
"If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have done a whole lot of
changes from what I did.)
I have two sliding window panels (the remains of an 8 foot wide
five foot high unit. sort of like this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/JELD-WEN-95-5-in-x-47-5-in-V-2500-Series-White-Vinyl-Universal-Reversible-Sliding-Window-with-Fiberglass-Mesh-Screen-Sierra-2VSLD-8040/202035708)

Anyway, the issue is The Header. The thing which goes at the top
of the wall and transfers the load "elsewhere" First question: does
it need to be a 4 x 8, or can two 2x8s be nailed together and made to
work?

Secondly the wall I want to put the window into is 'load bearing',
specifically, those studs have the joists supporting the loft
attached. Unlike the north or south wall which are just holding
themselves up. Originally I was willing to cut the studs under the
joists, and install the header under the joist. But .. that puts the
bottom of the window below the (eventual) bench top. (If my
calculations are correct, the bottom of the window is at 21 inches
height, and the bench top is at 30 inches. That will provide
ventilation under the bench.)
If I cut the joists loose (propping them up _before_ I start
sawing) I could raise everything up by 1 Joist height (six inches, if
memory serves). This still leaves the bottom of my windows below the
bench top, but ...

The alternative is to go buy a shorter window, but I don't want to
waste money of things like that when I need to get some tools.



What size is the opening ?
You say that you're using the 2 sliding windows from an 8 foot
window unit - and leave us to guess that size - gee thanks.
You could leave a doubled tripled stud in-between the 2 windows
and have half the span to worry about - ie: no worries.
John T.

Also, doing a "sub-standard" job - window too big or whatever, just
to use a "free" window generally ends up being "false economy" as you
will have to look at the results for YEARS!!!! Let the moths out of
the wallet and find a window that more accurately fits your
requirements - and mabee build a hothouse for the wife with the
existing windows to produce salad fixings theoughout the year - - -
  #8   Report Post  
Old July 2nd 20, 04:45 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 14,320
Default putting a header for a window

On Thursday, July 2, 2020 at 9:12:17 AM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jul 2020 08:01:21 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 01 Jul 2020 21:13:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Greetings

Seeking the collective wisdom of the Internet on a remodeling
project.

The Project of the summer is to put a window in the shed. (I
should have done this two years ago when I was rebuilding said shed.
"If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have done a whole lot of
changes from what I did.)
I have two sliding window panels (the remains of an 8 foot wide
five foot high unit. sort of like this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/JELD-WEN-95-5-in-x-47-5-in-V-2500-Series-White-Vinyl-Universal-Reversible-Sliding-Window-with-Fiberglass-Mesh-Screen-Sierra-2VSLD-8040/202035708)

Anyway, the issue is The Header. The thing which goes at the top
of the wall and transfers the load "elsewhere" First question: does
it need to be a 4 x 8, or can two 2x8s be nailed together and made to
work?

Secondly the wall I want to put the window into is 'load bearing',
specifically, those studs have the joists supporting the loft
attached. Unlike the north or south wall which are just holding
themselves up. Originally I was willing to cut the studs under the
joists, and install the header under the joist. But .. that puts the
bottom of the window below the (eventual) bench top. (If my
calculations are correct, the bottom of the window is at 21 inches
height, and the bench top is at 30 inches. That will provide
ventilation under the bench.)
If I cut the joists loose (propping them up _before_ I start
sawing) I could raise everything up by 1 Joist height (six inches, if
memory serves). This still leaves the bottom of my windows below the
bench top, but ...

The alternative is to go buy a shorter window, but I don't want to
waste money of things like that when I need to get some tools.



What size is the opening ?
You say that you're using the 2 sliding windows from an 8 foot
window unit - and leave us to guess that size - gee thanks.
You could leave a doubled tripled stud in-between the 2 windows
and have half the span to worry about - ie: no worries.
John T.

Also, doing a "sub-standard" job - window too big or whatever, just
to use a "free" window generally ends up being "false economy" as you
will have to look at the results for YEARS!!!! Let the moths out of
the wallet and find a window that more accurately fits your
requirements - and mabee build a hothouse for the wife with the
existing windows to produce salad fixings theoughout the year - - -


Not to mention that any plan to put a window directly behind - below the
top - of the workbench needs to include protection for the window. I have 2
work surfaces, both of which are up against the drywall. The dings and dents
smell very much like a broken window.

Oh, there's a gap between the back of the workbench and the glass? I hope
there's a "backsplash" on the workbench. Otherwise, good luck retrieving
anything that falls off the back of the workbench.
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Old July 2nd 20, 06:00 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 3,212
Default putting a header for a window

on Thu, 02 Jul 2020 08:01:21 -0400 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On Wed, 01 Jul 2020 21:13:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Greetings

Seeking the collective wisdom of the Internet on a remodeling
project.

The Project of the summer is to put a window in the shed. (I
should have done this two years ago when I was rebuilding said shed.
"If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have done a whole lot of
changes from what I did.)
I have two sliding window panels (the remains of an 8 foot wide
five foot high unit. sort of like this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/JELD-WEN-95-5-in-x-47-5-in-V-2500-Series-White-Vinyl-Universal-Reversible-Sliding-Window-with-Fiberglass-Mesh-Screen-Sierra-2VSLD-8040/202035708)

Anyway, the issue is The Header. The thing which goes at the top
of the wall and transfers the load "elsewhere" First question: does
it need to be a 4 x 8, or can two 2x8s be nailed together and made to
work?

Secondly the wall I want to put the window into is 'load bearing',
specifically, those studs have the joists supporting the loft
attached. Unlike the north or south wall which are just holding
themselves up. Originally I was willing to cut the studs under the
joists, and install the header under the joist. But .. that puts the
bottom of the window below the (eventual) bench top. (If my
calculations are correct, the bottom of the window is at 21 inches
height, and the bench top is at 30 inches. That will provide
ventilation under the bench.)
If I cut the joists loose (propping them up _before_ I start
sawing) I could raise everything up by 1 Joist height (six inches, if
memory serves). This still leaves the bottom of my windows below the
bench top, but ...

The alternative is to go buy a shorter window, but I don't want to
waste money of things like that when I need to get some tools.



What size is the opening ?
You say that you're using the 2 sliding windows from an 8 foot
window unit - and leave us to guess that size - gee thanks.


Sorry, "It was obvious to me." the window parts are 2 feet wide,
for a total of less than 4 feet, as they overlap some in order to have
one slide open. I'm after ventilation air as much as light. It gets
hot in there in the summer.

You could leave a doubled tripled stud in-between the 2 windows
and have half the span to worry about - ie: no worries.


Ooh, hadn't thought of that. Because this part of the shop has
studs on 24" centers, if I can find some "narrow" windows, I could
skip the entire "cut the studs" part and just install skinny windows.
John T.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?


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Old July 2nd 20, 06:00 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 3,212
Default putting a header for a window

DerbyDad03 on Thu, 2 Jul 2020 08:45:22 -0700
(PDT) typed in rec.woodworking the following:

Not to mention that any plan to put a window directly behind - below the
top - of the workbench needs to include protection for the window. I have 2
work surfaces, both of which are up against the drywall. The dings and dents
smell very much like a broken window.


I should post the pictures of the one window, not by the bench.
Where the 4x4 post tipped over and broke the inner pane. "Someday" I
will get that fixed.

Oh, there's a gap between the back of the workbench and the glass? I hope
there's a "backsplash" on the workbench. Otherwise, good luck retrieving
anything that falls off the back of the workbench.


If there is a big enough gap, it will fall on the floor under the
bench. Then all I have to do is move everything "temporarily" stored
under the bench ...

The plan is top have some kind of "back splash" / grate / grill to
protect the window and to keep things on the bench. That hasn't been
a problem so far, because the bench is up against the wall, and there
are two tool cabinets and "stuff" on the bench against the wall. On
future plans is to build a new tool cabinet thing to hold "everything"
so I can find it.
Which brings me back to "fitting the windows" because I'm going to
loose that wall space behind the bench..
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?


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