On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 10:51:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/29/2020 6:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 13:28:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 6:44 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 13:50:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 1:49 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/27/2020 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 10:10:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 9:22 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 06:01:21 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 17:02:14 -0400, wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/y8hr5x9u

Hmmmm, a large industrial table saw from the country that brought us
Fiat cars and Olivetti office machines, the pinnacles of engineering
reliability. ;-)

I dunno.* The Italian Laguna bandsaws look pretty good but I couldn't
justify it.

Then how about one of these....* I found this one on my kitchen
table.* ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

What does she expect you to do with it, in return?* ;-)

After you use it a while, please let us know how it goes.* I've looked
at them in the store but I'm not sure.* It's a _lot_ of money and if I
wanted to go there, might just as well bite the bullet and go all the
way to CNC.


I got her this 3 weeks ago.* She loves it.* An induction range with
"Euro" style convection baking.* She appreciates NO knobs to have to
wipe around and she can clean up spills immediately after removing the
pot or pan the surface stays relatively cool compared to gas or electric
radiant.


I first starting CNC last September.* After Shaper came out with their
"Work Station" I became much more interested in the Shaper Orion. And
now that it does on board box joints and DT joints I was all in.

The big minus for the regular CNC is that it gets very expensive for one
that can handle larger projects.* And IIRC a regular CNC requires all
input from a computer.* Shaper will allow that but has many files built
in.* Shaper has no limit to the size of the project, no CNC can approach
the Shaper for that.* And Shaper all in with the work station is about
the price of an entry level CNC.
And the foot print when not in use, the size of a Systainer, so no extra
room needed.* And take the Shaper to the job site for things like inlays
on wood floors or to place a Dutchman in a damaged table top.


OOPS I got her this.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

We replaced all of the appliances with Kitchen Aid. She prefers gas
but there is no gas available here (wish there were for heat, too) so
had to put a tank in the back yard. The oven is a dual fuel, so the
oven is electric. Works well. The microwave is convection but I don't
think she's ever used it that way. She _loves_ her air-fryer, though.
Cheap, thrill. She probably uses it four nights a week.

BTW, we were talking about the Festool 18V drills a couple of weeks
ago. I haven't been able to get my hands on one of the impact drivers
yet but the T18+3E drill is *HEAVY* and the torque rating isn't all
that great. Not impressed.


Did it have a battery in it, not balanced? Mine, 15 volt" feels no
heavier than my Makita 12 volt. AFWIW it also replaced my Makita
impact. I have not used an impact since getting the Festool.

Yeah, it had a battery in it. It's a *lot* heavier than my 18V Bosch
and I think the batteries are about the same size. I certainly
wouldn't want to work over my head with it.

I have a Bosch impact, It arrived in the mail/UPS many years ago and I
am clueless why or how I was sent this tool. The address was to me so I
guess some one awarded me for something I did or said. LOL Anyway its
batter was very lite weight but its amp rating was 2.

Which one? The 12V (10.5V) or 18V? I have both (and the drills that
go with them). The little one is great for working overhead. Bosch
has larger batteries, at least for the 18V.



You have to use it in real world applications.
When I got mine 8-9 years ago I thought I was going to need to get the
impact too. As it is it has totally replaced my need for an impact.

The T18 has less torque than my Bosch, at least on paper, and weighs a
pound more.

On paper, and that may very well play to to be a good comparison. But
as I use my T15 drill more and more I realized it had the grunt/torque
at extremely low RPM's. For instance driving a 3" deck screw into a 2x4
to attach to another 2x4 while adding shelving to my storage shed I
could drive the screws slowly. The benefit here was that I had more
control when initially starting the screw, none of that wobble that
sometimes happens when the screw is not quite biting and going into the
wood. After the screw grabbed it sped up the speed. At that point I
noticed that I could slow down the speed to a crawl and the drill
continued to drive the screw and did not stall... I could stop with the
screw 3/4 into the wood and slightly pull the trigger again and the
drill simply began turning the screw again at a very slow speed if I
wanted, or fast. Basically I did not have to pull the trigger a lot to
give the drill enough juice to get going again and the thing spin at a
fast speed. It would go at any rate I wanted and not stall.



I would have to say that torque ratings might be lower but I believe it
uses the torque much more efficiently than the competition.

I really don't care much abut efficiency. I have more batteries at
the standby. I certainly don't want to give up weight for it (and
that's the way to improve efficiency).

What I meant to indicate was the effecency effect was how and when the
torque came into play. A comparison would be like the torque to a
gasoline and diesel engine. Diesel engines develop maximum torque at a
very low rpm as oppose to a gasoline engine. The Festool has the torque
at low rpms. You don't always want the drill spinning fast to get the
torque to be at its max, especially when driving screws in wood. You
may find that with low rpm torque that maximum torque compared to other
brands is less important. As an example, and this is what I finally
came to realize, when driving those long screws at a low rpm and not
having to pull the trigger to what would normally be a high rpm IF the
bit cam'd out of the screw head it only spun a few revolutions. My
other drills would spin many times and bugger up the head of the screw.

But we're not talking about gas vs. diesel engines. Both are
electric, and the same sort of electric motors (DC). That is, All
such electric motors have maximum torque at low speed. Torque/speed
is a matter of gearing, which is why there are gear "shifts" on these
drills.

In any case, I prefer impact drivers for driving screws. I have a lot
less problem with cam out with impact drivers. I can more easily pull
a buggered screw with an impact driver than I can with a drill.




I'm probably going to go to Woodcraft Saturday to take a look at both
again. The price isn't bad but I wasn't impressed with a quick feel.


I really have no skin in the game and I am simply describing my
experience with the tool. I learned to appreciate the electronic clutch
and delivery of power the more I used it.
The electronic clutch is elegant. The drill simply stops turning at the
preset clutch setting and then sounds a tone. It remains stopped until
you release the trigger and pull it again. None of that clattering and
rattling a typical clutched drill produces.

That's a worthwhile feature. They're also brushless, which is a
feature I wouldn't give up now. Again, I'll give it a fair look again
and I hope they have them set up to really try out.


Remember, you have a period of time to return the tool if you decide it
is not your cup of tea.
3-Year Comprehensive Warranty Coverage - including wear and tear!
3-Year free shipping to and from Festool service department.
10-Year spare parts availability guarantees long-term support.
1-Month money back guarantee.

Sending Festools back isn't likely. Yeah, I have a few. ;-)

On 6/30/2020 7:20 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 10:51:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/29/2020 6:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 13:28:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 6:44 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 13:50:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 1:49 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/27/2020 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 10:10:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 9:22 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 06:01:21 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 17:02:14 -0400, wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/y8hr5x9u

Hmmmm, a large industrial table saw from the country that brought us
Fiat cars and Olivetti office machines, the pinnacles of engineering
reliability. ;-)

I dunno.Â* The Italian Laguna bandsaws look pretty good but I couldn't
justify it.

Then how about one of these....Â* I found this one on my kitchen
table.Â* ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

What does she expect you to do with it, in return?Â* ;-)

After you use it a while, please let us know how it goes.Â* I've looked
at them in the store but I'm not sure.Â* It's a _lot_ of money and if I
wanted to go there, might just as well bite the bullet and go all the
way to CNC.


I got her this 3 weeks ago.Â* She loves it.Â* An induction range with
"Euro" style convection baking.Â* She appreciates NO knobs to have to
wipe around and she can clean up spills immediately after removing the
pot or pan the surface stays relatively cool compared to gas or electric
radiant.


I first starting CNC last September.Â* After Shaper came out with their
"Work Station" I became much more interested in the Shaper Orion. And
now that it does on board box joints and DT joints I was all in.

The big minus for the regular CNC is that it gets very expensive for one
that can handle larger projects.Â* And IIRC a regular CNC requires all
input from a computer.Â* Shaper will allow that but has many files built
in.Â* Shaper has no limit to the size of the project, no CNC can approach
the Shaper for that.Â* And Shaper all in with the work station is about
the price of an entry level CNC.
And the foot print when not in use, the size of a Systainer, so no extra
room needed.Â* And take the Shaper to the job site for things like inlays
on wood floors or to place a Dutchman in a damaged table top.


OOPS I got her this.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

We replaced all of the appliances with Kitchen Aid. She prefers gas
but there is no gas available here (wish there were for heat, too) so
had to put a tank in the back yard. The oven is a dual fuel, so the
oven is electric. Works well. The microwave is convection but I don't
think she's ever used it that way. She _loves_ her air-fryer, though.
Cheap, thrill. She probably uses it four nights a week.

BTW, we were talking about the Festool 18V drills a couple of weeks
ago. I haven't been able to get my hands on one of the impact drivers
yet but the T18+3E drill is *HEAVY* and the torque rating isn't all
that great. Not impressed.


Did it have a battery in it, not balanced? Mine, 15 volt" feels no
heavier than my Makita 12 volt. AFWIW it also replaced my Makita
impact. I have not used an impact since getting the Festool.

Yeah, it had a battery in it. It's a *lot* heavier than my 18V Bosch
and I think the batteries are about the same size. I certainly
wouldn't want to work over my head with it.

I have a Bosch impact, It arrived in the mail/UPS many years ago and I
am clueless why or how I was sent this tool. The address was to me so I
guess some one awarded me for something I did or said. LOL Anyway its
batter was very lite weight but its amp rating was 2.

Which one? The 12V (10.5V) or 18V? I have both (and the drills that
go with them). The little one is great for working overhead. Bosch
has larger batteries, at least for the 18V.



You have to use it in real world applications.
When I got mine 8-9 years ago I thought I was going to need to get the
impact too. As it is it has totally replaced my need for an impact.

The T18 has less torque than my Bosch, at least on paper, and weighs a
pound more.

On paper, and that may very well play to to be a good comparison. But
as I use my T15 drill more and more I realized it had the grunt/torque
at extremely low RPM's. For instance driving a 3" deck screw into a 2x4
to attach to another 2x4 while adding shelving to my storage shed I
could drive the screws slowly. The benefit here was that I had more
control when initially starting the screw, none of that wobble that
sometimes happens when the screw is not quite biting and going into the
wood. After the screw grabbed it sped up the speed. At that point I
noticed that I could slow down the speed to a crawl and the drill
continued to drive the screw and did not stall... I could stop with the
screw 3/4 into the wood and slightly pull the trigger again and the
drill simply began turning the screw again at a very slow speed if I
wanted, or fast. Basically I did not have to pull the trigger a lot to
give the drill enough juice to get going again and the thing spin at a
fast speed. It would go at any rate I wanted and not stall.



I would have to say that torque ratings might be lower but I believe it
uses the torque much more efficiently than the competition.

I really don't care much abut efficiency. I have more batteries at
the standby. I certainly don't want to give up weight for it (and
that's the way to improve efficiency).

What I meant to indicate was the effecency effect was how and when the
torque came into play. A comparison would be like the torque to a
gasoline and diesel engine. Diesel engines develop maximum torque at a
very low rpm as oppose to a gasoline engine. The Festool has the torque
at low rpms. You don't always want the drill spinning fast to get the
torque to be at its max, especially when driving screws in wood. You
may find that with low rpm torque that maximum torque compared to other
brands is less important. As an example, and this is what I finally
came to realize, when driving those long screws at a low rpm and not
having to pull the trigger to what would normally be a high rpm IF the
bit cam'd out of the screw head it only spun a few revolutions. My
other drills would spin many times and bugger up the head of the screw.

But we're not talking about gas vs. diesel engines. Both are
electric, and the same sort of electric motors (DC). That is, All
such electric motors have maximum torque at low speed. Torque/speed
is a matter of gearing, which is why there are gear "shifts" on these
drills.

No we are not talking gas vs. electric but this is the easiest way for
me to explain the difference. All electric motors can have max torque
at low speed but not necessarily.
The Festool is all electronic including the electronic clutch. On a
different drill you pull the trigger, the drill stalls until you pull
the trigger more. Not the case with the Festool. It is much less
likely to stall at very low speeds with out having to give it more juice.



In any case, I prefer impact drivers for driving screws. I have a lot
less problem with cam out with impact drivers. I can more easily pull
a buggered screw with an impact driver than I can with a drill.

Yeah me too. But then I got the Festool drill and I seldom if ever need
an impact. I hardly ever if ever have buggered up a screw with the
Festool drill.






I'm probably going to go to Woodcraft Saturday to take a look at both
again. The price isn't bad but I wasn't impressed with a quick feel.


I really have no skin in the game and I am simply describing my
experience with the tool. I learned to appreciate the electronic clutch
and delivery of power the more I used it.
The electronic clutch is elegant. The drill simply stops turning at the
preset clutch setting and then sounds a tone. It remains stopped until
you release the trigger and pull it again. None of that clattering and
rattling a typical clutched drill produces.

That's a worthwhile feature. They're also brushless, which is a
feature I wouldn't give up now. Again, I'll give it a fair look again
and I hope they have them set up to really try out.

Take some deck screws with you and maybe even a piece of 2x4. Drive the
screws into the edge of the 2x4 so that you are not penetrating.





Remember, you have a period of time to return the tool if you decide it
is not your cup of tea.
3-Year Comprehensive Warranty Coverage - including wear and tear!
3-Year free shipping to and from Festool service department.
10-Year spare parts availability guarantees long-term support.
1-Month money back guarantee.

Sending Festools back isn't likely. Yeah, I have a few. ;-)


Don't you have the 55 track saw? Weren't you you indicating that it
sounded like it was straining when cutting thick stock?

I was watching YouTube with a Festool guy explaining this sound.
Apparently it is some type of feed back circuitry keeping the blade at a
constant rpm that causes this sound.

On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 14:57:18 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/30/2020 7:20 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 10:51:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/29/2020 6:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 13:28:50 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 6:44 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 13:50:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 1:49 PM, Leon wrote:
On 6/27/2020 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 10:10:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 9:22 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 06:01:21 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 17:02:14 -0400, wrote:

https://tinyurl.com/y8hr5x9u

Hmmmm, a large industrial table saw from the country that brought us
Fiat cars and Olivetti office machines, the pinnacles of engineering
reliability. ;-)

I dunno.* The Italian Laguna bandsaws look pretty good but I couldn't
justify it.

Then how about one of these....* I found this one on my kitchen
table.* ;~)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

What does she expect you to do with it, in return?* ;-)

After you use it a while, please let us know how it goes.* I've looked
at them in the store but I'm not sure.* It's a _lot_ of money and if I
wanted to go there, might just as well bite the bullet and go all the
way to CNC.


I got her this 3 weeks ago.* She loves it.* An induction range with
"Euro" style convection baking.* She appreciates NO knobs to have to
wipe around and she can clean up spills immediately after removing the
pot or pan the surface stays relatively cool compared to gas or electric
radiant.


I first starting CNC last September.* After Shaper came out with their
"Work Station" I became much more interested in the Shaper Orion. And
now that it does on board box joints and DT joints I was all in.

The big minus for the regular CNC is that it gets very expensive for one
that can handle larger projects.* And IIRC a regular CNC requires all
input from a computer.* Shaper will allow that but has many files built
in.* Shaper has no limit to the size of the project, no CNC can approach
the Shaper for that.* And Shaper all in with the work station is about
the price of an entry level CNC.
And the foot print when not in use, the size of a Systainer, so no extra
room needed.* And take the Shaper to the job site for things like inlays
on wood floors or to place a Dutchman in a damaged table top.


OOPS I got her this.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

We replaced all of the appliances with Kitchen Aid. She prefers gas
but there is no gas available here (wish there were for heat, too) so
had to put a tank in the back yard. The oven is a dual fuel, so the
oven is electric. Works well. The microwave is convection but I don't
think she's ever used it that way. She _loves_ her air-fryer, though.
Cheap, thrill. She probably uses it four nights a week.

BTW, we were talking about the Festool 18V drills a couple of weeks
ago. I haven't been able to get my hands on one of the impact drivers
yet but the T18+3E drill is *HEAVY* and the torque rating isn't all
that great. Not impressed.


Did it have a battery in it, not balanced? Mine, 15 volt" feels no
heavier than my Makita 12 volt. AFWIW it also replaced my Makita
impact. I have not used an impact since getting the Festool.

Yeah, it had a battery in it. It's a *lot* heavier than my 18V Bosch
and I think the batteries are about the same size. I certainly
wouldn't want to work over my head with it.

I have a Bosch impact, It arrived in the mail/UPS many years ago and I
am clueless why or how I was sent this tool. The address was to me so I
guess some one awarded me for something I did or said. LOL Anyway its
batter was very lite weight but its amp rating was 2.

Which one? The 12V (10.5V) or 18V? I have both (and the drills that
go with them). The little one is great for working overhead. Bosch
has larger batteries, at least for the 18V.



You have to use it in real world applications.
When I got mine 8-9 years ago I thought I was going to need to get the
impact too. As it is it has totally replaced my need for an impact.

The T18 has less torque than my Bosch, at least on paper, and weighs a
pound more.

On paper, and that may very well play to to be a good comparison. But
as I use my T15 drill more and more I realized it had the grunt/torque
at extremely low RPM's. For instance driving a 3" deck screw into a 2x4
to attach to another 2x4 while adding shelving to my storage shed I
could drive the screws slowly. The benefit here was that I had more
control when initially starting the screw, none of that wobble that
sometimes happens when the screw is not quite biting and going into the
wood. After the screw grabbed it sped up the speed. At that point I
noticed that I could slow down the speed to a crawl and the drill
continued to drive the screw and did not stall... I could stop with the
screw 3/4 into the wood and slightly pull the trigger again and the
drill simply began turning the screw again at a very slow speed if I
wanted, or fast. Basically I did not have to pull the trigger a lot to
give the drill enough juice to get going again and the thing spin at a
fast speed. It would go at any rate I wanted and not stall.



I would have to say that torque ratings might be lower but I believe it
uses the torque much more efficiently than the competition.

I really don't care much abut efficiency. I have more batteries at
the standby. I certainly don't want to give up weight for it (and
that's the way to improve efficiency).

What I meant to indicate was the effecency effect was how and when the
torque came into play. A comparison would be like the torque to a
gasoline and diesel engine. Diesel engines develop maximum torque at a
very low rpm as oppose to a gasoline engine. The Festool has the torque
at low rpms. You don't always want the drill spinning fast to get the
torque to be at its max, especially when driving screws in wood. You
may find that with low rpm torque that maximum torque compared to other
brands is less important. As an example, and this is what I finally
came to realize, when driving those long screws at a low rpm and not
having to pull the trigger to what would normally be a high rpm IF the
bit cam'd out of the screw head it only spun a few revolutions. My
other drills would spin many times and bugger up the head of the screw.

But we're not talking about gas vs. diesel engines. Both are
electric, and the same sort of electric motors (DC). That is, All
such electric motors have maximum torque at low speed. Torque/speed
is a matter of gearing, which is why there are gear "shifts" on these
drills.

No we are not talking gas vs. electric but this is the easiest way for
me to explain the difference. All electric motors can have max torque
at low speed but not necessarily.

Motors of the same type work the same. They're all DC motors, and
these are more precisely brushless DC motors, and act alike.

The Festool is all electronic including the electronic clutch. On a
different drill you pull the trigger, the drill stalls until you pull
the trigger more. Not the case with the Festool. It is much less
likely to stall at very low speeds with out having to give it more juice.

No, the electronic clutch is an advantage but the motor technology is
the same. Neither will stall. The clutches will disengage with the
Festool being more predictable.

In any case, I prefer impact drivers for driving screws. I have a lot
less problem with cam out with impact drivers. I can more easily pull
a buggered screw with an impact driver than I can with a drill.

Yeah me too. But then I got the Festool drill and I seldom if ever need
an impact. I hardly ever if ever have buggered up a screw with the
Festool drill.

I get them all the time - with square-heads too. I don't know how I
do it but it's not unusual. I've even buggered a few star heads. I
think my depth perception may be nonexistent. I know I can't see
anything close anymore, even with glasses.





I'm probably going to go to Woodcraft Saturday to take a look at both
again. The price isn't bad but I wasn't impressed with a quick feel.


I really have no skin in the game and I am simply describing my
experience with the tool. I learned to appreciate the electronic clutch
and delivery of power the more I used it.
The electronic clutch is elegant. The drill simply stops turning at the
preset clutch setting and then sounds a tone. It remains stopped until
you release the trigger and pull it again. None of that clattering and
rattling a typical clutched drill produces.

That's a worthwhile feature. They're also brushless, which is a
feature I wouldn't give up now. Again, I'll give it a fair look again
and I hope they have them set up to really try out.

Take some deck screws with you and maybe even a piece of 2x4. Drive the
screws into the edge of the 2x4 so that you are not penetrating.

I thought they'd have some available but it's a good idea. Even the
BORG has had them available to play with their Ryobi stuff.




Remember, you have a period of time to return the tool if you decide it
is not your cup of tea.
3-Year Comprehensive Warranty Coverage - including wear and tear!
3-Year free shipping to and from Festool service department.
10-Year spare parts availability guarantees long-term support.
1-Month money back guarantee.

Sending Festools back isn't likely. Yeah, I have a few. ;-)


Don't you have the 55 track saw? Weren't you you indicating that it
sounded like it was straining when cutting thick stock?

Sure. One of the first, I think. I've had it about ten years.
There's no way I'd be without it. My Unisaur is getting a lot less
use.

It works fine but I thought it should have more power. It's nothing
like a 7" circular saw.

I was watching YouTube with a Festool guy explaining this sound.
Apparently it is some type of feed back circuitry keeping the blade at a
constant rpm that causes this sound.

Interesting.

On 7/1/2020 8:10 PM, wrote:

Snip

No we are not talking gas vs. electric but this is the easiest way for
me to explain the difference. All electric motors can have max torque
at low speed but not necessarily.

Motors of the same type work the same. They're all DC motors, and
these are more precisely brushless DC motors, and act alike.

If all act alike how can one claim to have more torque than the next. ;~)




The Festool is all electronic including the electronic clutch. On a
different drill you pull the trigger, the drill stalls until you pull
the trigger more. Not the case with the Festool. It is much less
likely to stall at very low speeds with out having to give it more juice.

No, the electronic clutch is an advantage but the motor technology is
the same. Neither will stall. The clutches will disengage with the
Festool being more predictable.

The clutch is not being used at all to create the stall, the load is
causing the stall.





In any case, I prefer impact drivers for driving screws. I have a lot
less problem with cam out with impact drivers. I can more easily pull
a buggered screw with an impact driver than I can with a drill.

Yeah me too. But then I got the Festool drill and I seldom if ever need
an impact. I hardly ever if ever have buggered up a screw with the
Festool drill.

I get them all the time - with square-heads too. I don't know how I
do it but it's not unusual. I've even buggered a few star heads. I
think my depth perception may be nonexistent. I know I can't see
anything close anymore, even with glasses.
Driving at a fast speed, often necessary to be able to drive the screw
with other brand drills, increases the likely hood of cam out and
buggering up the thread.
Again, with my Festool I simply drive slow through out the whole drive
of the screw. It tends to maintain the same speed with out having to
"gun it". ;~)








I'm probably going to go to Woodcraft Saturday to take a look at both
again. The price isn't bad but I wasn't impressed with a quick feel.


I really have no skin in the game and I am simply describing my
experience with the tool. I learned to appreciate the electronic clutch
and delivery of power the more I used it.
The electronic clutch is elegant. The drill simply stops turning at the
preset clutch setting and then sounds a tone. It remains stopped until
you release the trigger and pull it again. None of that clattering and
rattling a typical clutched drill produces.

That's a worthwhile feature. They're also brushless, which is a
feature I wouldn't give up now. Again, I'll give it a fair look again
and I hope they have them set up to really try out.

Take some deck screws with you and maybe even a piece of 2x4. Drive the
screws into the edge of the 2x4 so that you are not penetrating.

I thought they'd have some available but it's a good idea. Even the
BORG has had them available to play with their Ryobi stuff.


I normally do not trust the demo to include materials that I want to
test for MY real world conditions.








Remember, you have a period of time to return the tool if you decide it
is not your cup of tea.
3-Year Comprehensive Warranty Coverage - including wear and tear!
3-Year free shipping to and from Festool service department.
10-Year spare parts availability guarantees long-term support.
1-Month money back guarantee.

Sending Festools back isn't likely. Yeah, I have a few. ;-)


Don't you have the 55 track saw? Weren't you you indicating that it
sounded like it was straining when cutting thick stock?

Sure. One of the first, I think. I've had it about ten years.
There's no way I'd be without it. My Unisaur is getting a lot less
use.

It works fine but I thought it should have more power. It's nothing
like a 7" circular saw.

I was watching YouTube with a Festool guy explaining this sound.
Apparently it is some type of feed back circuitry keeping the blade at a
constant rpm that causes this sound.

Interesting.

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 12:48:57 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 7/1/2020 8:10 PM, wrote:

Snip

No we are not talking gas vs. electric but this is the easiest way for
me to explain the difference. All electric motors can have max torque
at low speed but not necessarily.

Motors of the same type work the same. They're all DC motors, and
these are more precisely brushless DC motors, and act alike.

If all act alike how can one claim to have more torque than the next. ;~)

Trading weight for torque. There is probably some specsmanship (AKA
lying with numbers) going on there too.


The Festool is all electronic including the electronic clutch. On a
different drill you pull the trigger, the drill stalls until you pull
the trigger more. Not the case with the Festool. It is much less
likely to stall at very low speeds with out having to give it more juice.

No, the electronic clutch is an advantage but the motor technology is
the same. Neither will stall. The clutches will disengage with the
Festool being more predictable.

The clutch is not being used at all to create the stall, the load is
causing the stall.

But the clutch is dropping the load. In the case of the ratchet type,
it just slips like a typical clutch. I assume the electronic clutch
cuts (or reduces) power to the drill when it reaches the set torque.
With either the motor isn't stalling. It would stall without a clutch
(or clutch is disable).


In any case, I prefer impact drivers for driving screws. I have a lot
less problem with cam out with impact drivers. I can more easily pull
a buggered screw with an impact driver than I can with a drill.

Yeah me too. But then I got the Festool drill and I seldom if ever need
an impact. I hardly ever if ever have buggered up a screw with the
Festool drill.

I get them all the time - with square-heads too. I don't know how I
do it but it's not unusual. I've even buggered a few star heads. I
think my depth perception may be nonexistent. I know I can't see
anything close anymore, even with glasses.
Driving at a fast speed, often necessary to be able to drive the screw
with other brand drills, increases the likely hood of cam out and
buggering up the thread.

But I use an impact driver. It still cams out but it will still drive
a buggered head. Hell on the bits, though.

Again, with my Festool I simply drive slow through out the whole drive
of the screw. It tends to maintain the same speed with out having to
"gun it". ;~)

Doesn't work with the sheetrock driver. ;-) or :-(








I'm probably going to go to Woodcraft Saturday to take a look at both
again. The price isn't bad but I wasn't impressed with a quick feel.


I really have no skin in the game and I am simply describing my
experience with the tool. I learned to appreciate the electronic clutch
and delivery of power the more I used it.
The electronic clutch is elegant. The drill simply stops turning at the
preset clutch setting and then sounds a tone. It remains stopped until
you release the trigger and pull it again. None of that clattering and
rattling a typical clutched drill produces.

That's a worthwhile feature. They're also brushless, which is a
feature I wouldn't give up now. Again, I'll give it a fair look again
and I hope they have them set up to really try out.

Take some deck screws with you and maybe even a piece of 2x4. Drive the
screws into the edge of the 2x4 so that you are not penetrating.

I thought they'd have some available but it's a good idea. Even the
BORG has had them available to play with their Ryobi stuff.


I normally do not trust the demo to include materials that I want to
test for MY real world conditions.

I'll probably bring some. I don't know that they'll have any out for
demos. I'm just going to the Woodcraft close to here. I'm not even
sure Highland is open yet.